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Possibly Fable HD Remake Modding Kit/DLC?

Hobbilis

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Hey guys, while I was watching I heard Ted Timmins said something interesting.
Interviewer: Will there be any extra missions or bonus stuff that wasnt in original?
Ted: That is a really good question, like I've said. I wanna flow off and add loads of new stuff.
Our priority right now is to make best Fable Anniversary experience we possibly can. When we finish the project in a few months time I'd love to look at DLC, one of the great things about Fable TLC initially when it was out on the PC in 2005 we had a huge modding community. We can actually look back in the past and see "Hey what was a really popular mod, what can we bring to people through the DLC now" Keep your eyes pealed, I would love to, the team would love to."

Just watch it through and you'll hear.
 

Daniel Ray

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Its being released on the 360 exclusively, so I don't know how they can ever implement a modding kit legitimately. Still, hope?
 

Necromancer

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I don't think he's talking about a modding kit there. I'm pretty sure he's talking about getting some ideas for new content from popular TLC mods.
 

Hobbilis

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I know he wasn't talking about modding kit, I was trying to put it into a hypothetical form. IF fable hd remake were to be released on PC, maybe we'll get a modding kit. Big maybe.
 

Dark Drakan

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They havent said it wont come to PC, just that they arent working on it right now.
 

Daniel Ray

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I don't think he's talking about a modding kit there. I'm pretty sure he's talking about getting some ideas for new content from popular TLC mods.

That is EXACTLY what Timmins said. He said he was going through old Fable forum threads, looking through really popular mods, and had IDEAS of bringing some of the mods back as DLC content.

They havent said it wont come to PC, just that they arent working on it right now.

Timmins did say that they MIGHT port it to the PC, but they want to finish the game up first before deciding anything. They'd rather avoid a Fable III scenario, where the PC port had most of the bugs and problems of the 360 day 1 release.
 

Lenop

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The problem at looking at popular mods for Fable TLC is that the modding capability was very limited and so the mods themselves were very limited. The most they'll be able to take away from the modding community is a wishlist, modding ideas and concepts that we all would have loved to do were we ever truly able.

Before I continue, I'd like to qualify myself here as someone knowing exactly what he's talking about. This is difficult as I generally prefer to be modest and this requires being the opposite of that. I'd feel confident in saying that I know more about Fable: TLC than any ten players, any three modders and any two Lionhead developers. I have run my fingers through every line of script, every variable in each binary, everything, I have spent my teen years learning how to crack formats and my early 20s doing so with this game.

The core of the game is hardcoded. We can't mod gameflow and that ties everything together. The quest scripts and basically everything essential in creating a mod that did more than merely add/modify assets or very minor things through map edits or miniscule changes like weapon damage or changing chest contents were the forbidden fruits hanging just out of reach. I'd like to say that an increasingly few talented individuals were capable of more, but such individuals are all gone now and I'm all that's left.

Some very important things on the modding community wishlist:
- a way to create new cutscenes rather than hijack existing ones, and have a way to call them in the game. Because, technically, we can create new cutscenes, but without a way to make them start it's all just a useless entry in the script.bin.
- a way to effectively edit navdata. This format was never fully understood and the tools to edit it were never really completed. As a result, we couldn't rework the maps, we could only use the existing walking paths on the maps.
- a way to create new maps. The key to this one lies in the STB, which holds the landscape. Almost everything that is ground, water, or flora is held in this archive and the format for it still remains unsolved. If you like invisible landscapes, you can create new maps, but again those maps are limited by the previous point. And no one likes invisible mountains anyway.
- speaking of which, a way to modify the STB. The holy grail, we would be able to truly create beautiful, wonderful, breathtaking worlds if this one could be granted.
- a way to create new quests, and thoroughly modify existing ones. As it is, it's possible to modify this or that with the quests such as the rewards and which maps and regions they start in, in addition to a few minor variables here and there. But the real meat of this one is hardcoded and the level of skill and the amount of time and effort required to do even the smallest things are just mindbogglingly insane. An example is shown here, sadly the author has made the video private but the concept remains.
- Animations. We can create any 3D model, but it will be constrained to the animations that already exist in the game. Without a plugin or suite that would allow us to edit animations (not to mention properly import and export models), only very minor changes to animations can be made to work. Such as this one.
- A million other smaller things that escape my attention at the moment.

If enough truly talented people had the time, patience and inclination, they could continue to push the limits of what is and isn't possible in Fable modding. Sadly the task is too daunting and the reward too small. For example, the amount of effort required to make a completely unique and custom creature, from the model and textures, to the bones and animations, to the behavior and "brain" and "opinion" it has, to it's weapons and attack styles and patterns, it would take days of nothing else. Assuming you already know what all of the unknown variables in the brain and opinion entries are, but then they'd not be called "unknown". And the reward, there's no way to incorporate this creation into the story, no way to make it a real part of the quests, so what's the point?


If they really want to get some help from the modding community, they may want to consider giving a little support to the modding community. With just a little help from them, so much more would be possible and then they'd have a modding community coming up with all kinds of amazing stuff they can use as inspiration for DLC.


Edit: I want to mention that some things are just engine limitations and can't be helped. Mounts, naval battles, swinging bridges, dynamically changing/moving maps and cities, these things just can't work right. But rest assured that it has been thought of and attempted regardless. :)
 

Skotekal

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The problem at looking at popular mods for Fable TLC is that the modding capability was very limited and so the mods themselves were very limited. The most they'll be able to take away from the modding community is a wishlist, modding ideas and concepts that we all would have loved to do were we ever truly able.

Before I continue, I'd like to qualify myself here as someone knowing exactly what he's talking about. This is difficult as I generally prefer to be modest and this requires being the opposite of that. I'd feel confident in saying that I know more about Fable: TLC than any ten players, any three modders and any two Lionhead developers. I have run my fingers through every line of script, every variable in each binary, everything, I have spent my teen years learning how to crack formats and my early 20s doing so with this game.

The core of the game is hardcoded. We can't mod gameflow and that ties everything together. The quest scripts and basically everything essential in creating a mod that did more than merely add/modify assets or very minor things through map edits or miniscule changes like weapon damage or changing chest contents were the forbidden fruits hanging just out of reach. I'd like to say that an increasingly few talented individuals were capable of more, but such individuals are all gone now and I'm all that's left.

Some very important things on the modding community wishlist:
- a way to create new cutscenes rather than hijack existing ones, and have a way to call them in the game. Because, technically, we can create new cutscenes, but without a way to make them start it's all just a useless entry in the script.bin.
- a way to effectively edit navdata. This format was never fully understood and the tools to edit it were never really completed. As a result, we couldn't rework the maps, we could only use the existing walking paths on the maps.
- a way to create new maps. The key to this one lies in the STB, which holds the landscape. Almost everything that is ground, water, or flora is held in this archive and the format for it still remains unsolved. If you like invisible landscapes, you can create new maps, but again those maps are limited by the previous point. And no one likes invisible mountains anyway.
- speaking of which, a way to modify the STB. The holy grail, we would be able to truly create beautiful, wonderful, breathtaking worlds if this one could be granted.
- a way to create new quests, and thoroughly modify existing ones. As it is, it's possible to modify this or that with the quests such as the rewards and which maps and regions they start in, in addition to a few minor variables here and there. But the real meat of this one is hardcoded and the level of skill and the amount of time and effort required to do even the smallest things are just mindbogglingly insane. An example is shown here, sadly the author has made the video private but the concept remains.
- Animations. We can create any 3D model, but it will be constrained to the animations that already exist in the game. Without a plugin or suite that would allow us to edit animations (not to mention properly import and export models), only very minor changes to animations can be made to work. Such as this one.
- A million other smaller things that escape my attention at the moment.

If enough truly talented people had the time, patience and inclination, they could continue to push the limits of what is and isn't possible in Fable modding. Sadly the task is too daunting and the reward too small. For example, the amount of effort required to make a completely unique and custom creature, from the model and textures, to the bones and animations, to the behavior and "brain" and "opinion" it has, to it's weapons and attack styles and patterns, it would take days of nothing else. Assuming you already know what all of the unknown variables in the brain and opinion entries are, but then they'd not be called "unknown". And the reward, there's no way to incorporate this creation into the story, no way to make it a real part of the quests, so what's the point?


If they really want to get some help from the modding community, they may want to consider giving a little support to the modding community. With just a little help from them, so much more would be possible and then they'd have a modding community coming up with all kinds of amazing stuff they can use as inspiration for DLC.


Edit: I want to mention that some things are just engine limitations and can't be helped. Mounts, naval battles, swinging bridges, dynamically changing/moving maps and cities, these things just can't work right. But rest assured that it has been thought of and attempted regardless. :)

ALL YOUR KNOWLEDGE MUST BELONG TO ME
 

Lenop

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ALL YOUR KNOWLEDGE MUST BELONG TO ME
Long ago, a modder asked me a question just before I killed him. He asked how it came to pass that I had this knowledge. I told him I acquired it by decapitating other modders and absorbing their powers.


Can't disprove it, and it explains the disappearance of many prominent names on the modding board.
 

Hobbilis

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Lenop. I.... I..... I dont' know what to say. I'm shocked and stunned... Seriously though, I just want Lionhead to release a little modding kit for us. I neeeeed this! Why can't they heed my plea?!

begging.gif
 

Hobbilis

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Newest video of Fable HD Remake gameplay.

 

CdotRedz

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Lionhead, give Fable to the fans.

2nd post in a row comparing Fable to Elder Scrolls but imagine if Anniversary had a mod tool like Oblivion and Skyrim. All the expectation and disappointment with F2 and F3, all the bashing and complaining. Hell they even shut down their forums cus of it. Give us a Fable World Editor! Everything we've wanted for Fable would be possible.
 

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Hopefully this is right. It's unlikely they are to release an Editor. But on the other hand, they might release a bunch of content that can be manipulated.
 

Keshire

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- a way to create new quests, and thoroughly modify existing ones. As it is, it's possible to modify this or that with the quests such as the rewards and which maps and regions they start in, in addition to a few minor variables here and there. But the real meat of this one is hardcoded and the level of skill and the amount of time and effort required to do even the smallest things are just mindbogglingly insane. An example is shown here, sadly the author has made the video private but the concept remains.

Those were actually alt accounts of me and silverback. ;)
The evolvulate name came from a joke on irc back in the day. I think I've had at least 3 or 4 alt accounts on the forum at one point. BlueTooth being the most prominent.

And at this point it's kind of a kick in the teeth after all the flak we were given when the forum was in it's heyday.
 

Zarkes

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Those were actually alt accounts of me and silverback. ;)
The evolvulate name came from a joke on irc back in the day. I think I've had at least 3 or 4 alt accounts on the forum at one point. BlueTooth being the most prominent.

And at this point it's kind of a kick in the teeth after all the flak we were given when the forum was in it's heyday.
HOLY CRAP! You were all those people?! You're not just a legend but many! I loved your Keshire Katana, no more butter knives for my assassin characters. And the Aquabus cannon, that thing did some damage (mostly to myself)


They really should have done a PC port with a kit, it would have been the biggest token of love for the community. Even bigger than a golden acorn.
 

Keshire

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They really should have done a PC port with a kit, it would have been the biggest token of love for the community. Even bigger than a golden acorn.

If the official forums hadn't been wiped and cleared so many times I'd be able to link to where a dev said modding was both stupid and gay.

Before Lionhead bought BigBlueBox we were able to get some of the file format information from Simon Carter to make some of our tools. Most of it confirmed what we knew but it was a nice gesture anyway.

After Lionhead bought BBB there was a complete shutdown of communication flowing to people associated with FableTLCmod.com. It was both sad and frustrating because there's still a lot of questions about the level formats.
 

Dark Drakan

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If the official forums hadn't been wiped and cleared so many times I'd be able to link to where a dev said modding was both stupid and gay.

Before Lionhead bought BigBlueBox we were able to get some of the file format information from Simon Carter to make some of our tools. Most of it confirmed what we knew but it was a nice gesture anyway.

After Lionhead bought BBB there was a complete shutdown of communication flowing to people associated with FableTLCmod.com. It was both sad and frustrating because there's still a lot of questions about the level formats.

Be interesting to see if any communication could be re-opened up to them now they have had a restructure with new leads and heads of staff. With Twitter being an easy way to contact particular members of staff directly these days it could be easier to get answers sooner. A couple of which have just been given promotions recently too (Ted Timmins I noticed this morning), might look into finding out who we would have to contact to restart communication.
 

Keshire

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Be interesting to see if any communication could be re-opened up to them now they have had a restructure with new leads and heads of staff. With Twitter being an easy way to contact particular members of staff directly these days it could be easier to get answers sooner. A couple of which have just been given promotions recently too (Ted Timmins I noticed this morning), might look into finding out who we would have to contact to restart communication.


With Microsoft's and Lionhead's pasts I'm less than convinced we'll see any changes that benefit the community. But I'd love to be pleasantly surprised. If some one wants to get that going I might be convinced to jump on board and help. But I'm not going to spearhead this one.

One thing of note. Fable 2 and 3 came out during Oblivion's height of modding popularity and it did NOTHING to convince lionhead and microsoft to follow along. Even after Skyrim came out and continues to be successful with modding, there's been no change in tone.

This franchise is, and continues to be, a console franchise. With the PC market as an afterthought, and then a blurb. "Look! We support PC too!:
 

Zarkes

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With Microsoft's and Lionhead's pasts I'm less than convinced we'll see any changes that benefit the community. But I'd love to be pleasantly surprised. If some one wants to get that going I might be convinced to jump on board and help. But I'm not going to spearhead this one.

One thing of note. Fable 2 and 3 came out during Oblivion's height of modding popularity and it did NOTHING to convince lionhead and microsoft to follow along. Even after Skyrim came out and continues to be successful with modding, there's been no change in tone.

This franchise is, and continues to be, a console franchise. With the PC market as an afterthought, and then a blurb. "Look! We support PC too!:
And after the issues they had with the Fable 3 port I can see them shrugging off another port aswell. They have the best community it sucks that they are just seemingly meeting status quo. They don't even implement the original mechanics that made Fable a great franchise in the first place.
 

Dark Drakan

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With Microsoft's and Lionhead's pasts I'm less than convinced we'll see any changes that benefit the community. But I'd love to be pleasantly surprised. If some one wants to get that going I might be convinced to jump on board and help. But I'm not going to spearhead this one.

One thing of note. Fable 2 and 3 came out during Oblivion's height of modding popularity and it did NOTHING to convince lionhead and microsoft to follow along. Even after Skyrim came out and continues to be successful with modding, there's been no change in tone.

This franchise is, and continues to be, a console franchise. With the PC market as an afterthought, and then a blurb. "Look! We support PC too!:

Ted Timmins is now the Fable franchise manager and we have had a good relationship with him over the years and he is well aware of these boards. I dont know how much he could personally do but I messaged him last night congratulating him on his promotion and with Twitter being so popular its never been easier to get things seen directly by staff.

kdg0.jpg


Might see if I can bring it up in future, didnt seem right time then. :lol:

They seem to be trying to rectify past mistakes and have a lot of new faces/older staff members in new positions at Lionhead now so you never know. Can you remember any members of staff who were maybe more positive about modding or any that were definitely opposed to the idea? Just curious as to who it would be best to approach on the subject to get the best answer on the matter.

The producer of Fable Anniversary Craig Oman did have the following to say on the matter though so there must be some hope, im confident we can restart communication somehow and get the ball rolling.

ByronT: If Fable Anniversary doesn't materialise for the PC after all, what would it entail to release modding tools for the original Fable: TLC or even Fable 3?

CO: We actively listen to all our fans and try to take on board their comments. We are working hard to grow our community and involve them more in the decisions we make!

Our full interview is here.
 
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