Featured Game #15 - Skyrim

[Dark Drakan]

For anyone not familiar with these threads see my others here. Basically I want peoples opinions on the games in these threads and what you liked/didnt like in them.​

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This weeks game was suggested by Scott (Gikoku) and is none other than Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim with a brief description of my thoughts.​

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One of my most awaited games ever after playing Oblivion for hundreds of hours and loving every minute. Skyrim is in many ways much better than Oblivion and Ive loved it even more. Such a hard game to criticise when they have raised the bar for open world RPG's so high but as always its not perfect. The world is beautiful, vast landscapes, mountains, snowy peaks and forests with large rivers are all gorgeous to look at and the world itself feels huge. The think ive loved the most about the Elder Scrolls series is the sheer freedom to choose where you go and when and what order to do things in. ​

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The combat was criticised in Morrowind for its sheerly stats based combat. Then came Oblivion which bettered the combat in many ways and it was no longer merely stats based it became much more like a regular 1st person combat system. Then Skyrim took it a step further and incorperated stealth kills and kill moves which is getting closer and closer to the type of combat I really wished the series had from the start. ​

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I cant remember the amount of time ive put into the game so far but every time I sit down to play the game I end up there most of the day. That to me is the sign of a great game, I cant pull myself away once I start and there is always something new to do which gets my attention. Ive barely scratched the surface on the main quest either and still rate the game as one of the best ive ever played.​

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Average Metacritic Score​

Xbox 360 - 96/100​

PS3 - 92/100​

PC - 94/100​

Pros​

• Vast open world.
• Kill moves are a great addition and combat is much better.
• Less filler skills like Athletics and perks were also a great addition.
• Levelling system is well made.
• Good variety of quests.
• Dragons are an interesting enemy and their AI with the radiant AI of enemies can make for some interesting battles.
• The game is as deep as you want it to be and as rewarding as the time you put into it.

Cons​

• Bugs (on PS3 mainly) and im yet to encounter any big ones
• AI still seems slightly robotic
• Friendly AI can get in the way
• Some Dragons follow the same attack patterns and others without the appropriate shout never land or attack they just circle around you and when you need souls its frustrating.

Now for this week people can voice their opinions on the game... ​

Can post your own Pros and Cons or if you havent played it things that appealed to you/didnt appeal and why you didnt play it...​

Any questions about the thread or suggestions for next weeks featured game send me a message.​

 

[Necromancer]

What's a skyrim?

 

[Gikoku]

Thanks for doing this one, easily my game of the year for 2011.

It's what, March 15th now? Got the game on release day (midnight) and still playing it today with so many things still undiscovered. I went for the PC version for this primarily because of the endless stream of mods that pour into the tube every single day on The Nexus. No regrets.

Jumping into the cons first. There's definitely bugs in the game, no denying that, but the severity varies from person to person. I myself haven't come into much problems (nothing game-breaking), but when you're dealing with a game of this size on a mostly re-written engine from 10 years ago, it really shouldn't come as a surprise. The lack of voice variety in a lot of characters bummed me out a bit, especially in the Khajiit and Argonian races, both of which only have 1 voice actor for each gender. The marriage system in the game feels like an afterthought, less depth than Fable's which surprises me, now I'm not expecting The Sims here, but they definitely could've done more with it.

Dated combat and enemies not reacting to blows (unless a power attack) which can take away from the immersion, I want to see my enemies reacting to each blow, not feel like I'm battling a wooden dummy with my wooden sword. There's mods out now that remedy and improve upon this issue, but it would have been nice if it was already in the game from the get go. The lack of depth and personality for followers in the game is disappointing and I was hoping Bethesda would've learned from this after Fallout 3.

Now for the pros: The hundreds of dungeons that are littered across the land, and every single one of them being unique in design? I'm still amazed Bethesda managed to pull it off given their track record and other devs who just use the copy & paste method. Keeps me anticipating what the next dungeon will look like and what secrets I'll unfold. I'm very glad Bethesda redesigned the interface because in previous entries it was a cluttered mess. And they managed to do it without making it overly simplistic or basic, but rather easily accessible.. I can get to wherever I want in the menu just like that.

The soundtrack in this game is fantastic and really sets the mood in various locations, also I'm curious if anyone else noticed that Jeremy included a Morrowind track into this game. Real-time conversations in combination with the radiant AI is great, it's nice talking to someone while others are going about their lives and holding conversations with other NPCs in the background, help giving that extra bit of life in the game. Then you have the attention to detail to everything, the way the wildlife behaves, being a hunter and cooking, insects doing their own thing, fish jumping upstream and catching them, etc. It's all the little things that when combined together make a big difference in the overall experience.

I've completely lost track of how many hours I've logged into this game and at this point I don't even care, the game continues to surprise and entertain me. With the endless sea of mods being created, plus the big DLCs, I know for a fact that just like Fallout 3 I'm going to be playing this game for years to come.

Cons:
- Dated combat that feels a bit stiff.
- Repetitive voice actors, lack of variety in the minority races, and all children are complete clones.
- Number of glitches from quests to general AI issues.
- Some features feeling like an afterthought, such as the marriage system.
- Inability to craft and learn spells without the need to only purchasing them, along with training dummies being mere decorations.
- Followers lack personality, depth, and life. But are mere shadows that protect your back.

Pros:
- Hundreds of dungeons to explore and each being unique in their own design.
- Interface is simplistic yet functional, however the Favorites menu can be a clutter when having too many bookmarks.
- Soundtrack is a complete eargasm.
- Real-time conversations are excellent and can be exited anytime, thus immersion is never broken like in past entries.
- Radiant AI makes for an entertaining adventure as random events that can occur are never the same. Such as a dragon picking someone up and flying them into the air, only to be blasted by another's fire breath.
- Character development is deep and addictive while also rewarding.
- Modding Community.
- Attention to detail for the little things, butterflies with their own AI, ants on tree stumps, wildlife behavior, hunting & cooking, etc.
- Characters look like actual people now, rather than cartoony aristocrats.

 

[Dark Drakan]

Dated combat and enemies not reacting to blows (unless a power attack) which can take away from the immersion, I want to see my enemies reacting to each blow, not feel like I'm battling a wooden dummy with my wooden sword. There's mods out now that remedy and improve upon this issue, but it would have been nice if it was already in the game from the get go. The lack of depth and personality for followers in the game is disappointing and I was hoping Bethesda would've learned from this after Fallout 3.

Now for the pros: The hundreds of dungeons that are littered across the land, and every single one of them being unique in design? I'm still amazed Bethesda managed to pull it off given their track record and other devs who just use the copy & paste method. Keeps me anticipating what the next dungeon will look like and what secrets I'll unfold. I'm very glad Bethesda redesigned the interface because in previous entries it was a cluttered mess. And they managed to do it without making it overly simplistic or basic, but rather easily accessible.. I can get to wherever I want in the menu just like that.

The soundtrack in this game is fantastic and really sets the mood in various locations, also I'm curious if anyone else noticed that Jeremy included a Morrowind track into this game. Real-time conversations in combination with the radiant AI is great, it's nice talking to someone while others are going about their lives and holding conversations with other NPCs in the background, help giving that extra bit of life in the game. Then you have the attention to detail to everything, the way the wildlife behaves, being a hunter and cooking, insects doing their own thing, fish jumping upstream and catching them, etc. It's all the little things that when combined together make a big difference in the overall experience.

As ive said before im a sucker for physics in games and I wish more games would have realistic weapon damage too. Being hit in the face by swords and arrows should warrant more of a reaction than a grit of the teeth. I wouldnt expect an RPG series like this to go down that route but many games are guilty of the same thing. One of the things I loved about Red Dead Redemption was that AI characters actually acted like they were taking bullets. Max Payne 3 is taking that a step further too with realistic damage and enemy AI cant simply absorb bullets or shrug them off. More games should do this instead of enemies being able to take so much before death. Like you said it makes you feel your hitting a wooden dummy rather than a person and takes away from the experience.

The uniqueness of the dungeons suprised me and they really upped their game with the design of them so hats off to them for that. They seem to do a brilliant job of making the world itself feel alive, just wish they translated this into making the AI characters feel more real.

The soundtrack is stunning I agree and they set the scene perfectly with some of the music scores. The level of detail in the game is simply mindblowing and im eager to see what new features the patch is going to include. Mind boggling to think what Bethesda could do in the next gen if they can pull this off on the current hardware.

 

[Quistrix]

Never heard of it.

 

[Gikoku]

As ive said before im a sucker for physics in games and I wish more games would have realistic weapon damage too. Being hit in the face by swords and arrows should warrant more of a reaction than a grit of the teeth. I wouldnt expect an RPG series like this to go down that route but many games are guilty of the same thing. One of the things I loved about Red Dead Redemption was that AI characters actually acted like they were taking bullets. Max Payne 3 is taking that a step further too with realistic damage and enemy AI cant simply absorb bullets or shrug them off. More games should do this instead of enemies being able to take so much before death. Like you said it makes you feel your hitting a wooden dummy rather than a person and takes away from the experience.

The uniqueness of the dungeons suprised me and they really upped their game with the design of them so hats off to them for that. They seem to do a brilliant job of making the world itself feel alive, just wish they translated this into making the AI characters feel more real.

The soundtrack is stunning I agree and they set the scene perfectly with some of the music scores. The level of detail in the game is simply mindblowing and im eager to see what new features the patch is going to include. Mind boggling to think what Bethesda could do in the next gen if they can pull this off on the current hardware.

If the physics in Skyrim were that of RDR, that'd be incredible, but at the same time the amount of glitches could end up being a nightmare if they don't know what they're doing (they're still having trouble with Havok's dated physics). Seeing enemies make use of their environments or taking hostages of nearby NPCs and using them to their advantage, etc. those kinds of things just make the game that more closer to perfection in my eyes. It's also the little things, NPCs reacting to weather changes, such as covering their faces in a blizzard. Perhaps one day in the future these things will become if not much closer to being a reality, because I fear that it may forever be a pipe dream.

Wishing they'd release some bits of details on DLC already, I keep seeing new DLC articles being written but it's all the same "meaty DLC" news with no new information. If they're going to be implementing new gameplay features through free patch updates, then can you imagine what things will be added through their DLCs? Crazy stuff.

 

[Quistrix]

As much as I love Skyrim, without mods the game becomes rather bland after a while on consoles. From the very start it always felt like it was lacking something, despite its huge size. Of course, none of this has stopped the game from keeping me on a leash. I always go back somehow and it interferes with my other games. "Play me Queen. Plaaay me.."

 

[Dark Drakan]

If the physics in Skyrim were that of RDR, that'd be incredible, but at the same time the amount of glitches could end up being a nightmare if they don't know what they're doing (they're still having trouble with Havok's dated physics). Seeing enemies make use of their environments or taking hostages of nearby NPCs and using them to their advantage, etc. those kinds of things just make the game that more closer to perfection in my eyes. It's also the little things, NPCs reacting to weather changes, such as covering their faces in a blizzard. Perhaps one day in the future these things will become if not much closer to being a reality, because I fear that it may forever be a pipe dream.

Wishing they'd release some bits of details on DLC already, I keep seeing new DLC articles being written but it's all the same "meaty DLC" news with no new information. If they're going to be implementing new gameplay features through free patch updates, then can you imagine what things will be added through their DLCs? Crazy stuff.

Rockstar have started using motion capture, with Euphoria and their own engine and thats starting to look incredible and might be the next milestone in gaming physics (latest trailer here). RDR had some pretty infamous glitches but I didnt witness a huge amount of them myself, just needed some more polish. Im nowhere near finishing Skyrim at the minute and im putting off playing it because I drop all my other games for it, soon as ive made good process on other games I will go back to it. I dont want DLC coming that soon because im nowhere close to needing it yet and will be tempted to buy it. :lol:

 

[Cain]

Pros

• Characters looks better.
• Grey morality with the Civil War questline.
• The battle music from the soundtrack is awesome.
• There is so much stuff to do.
• The Imperial Legion becoming more Roman influenced was great.
• Daedric quests are still fun.
• The civil war has improved the battles. The armies are more numerous than in Oblivion.

Cons

• I don't think there is enough variation in the faces.
• Skills system is really shallow. One of the things I enjoyed in Morrowind and Oblivion was the class system and having the skills and attributes to go with it. Just having skills I can increase takes some of the fun out of it for me.
• No downsides to taking drugs. Taking 5 lots of skooma would destroy your intelligence in Oblivion, now theres nothing.
• The combat hasn't improved. Its still a lot like oblivion, though NPCs will fall to their knees and yield.
• The AI needs to respond more. Walking into windhelm with Imperial Armour should make the guards attack me, but instead guards tell me I have 'some nerve' coming here.
• Needs better music for wandering around Skyrim. I could probably get into it more if I could listen to something like 'King and Country' from Oblivion. Which is a shame because I enjoy the battle music.
• There aren't enough voice actors. Its like Patrick Stewart all over again. They hire a famous actor, and then there are no actors for the rest of the characters except a small few. Beth promised 75 voice actors. Theres about 8 in reality.

More cons than pros there. If it had a class system and attributes, I would probably enjoy it more. The civil war questline is a step up from oblivion, as is the college of winterhold. Almost nobody has political ambition, and there is no infighting. The Legion has people who hated the white-gold concordat, but nobody rebels or challenges Tullius. There is a mention of Jarls fighting each other in the 'bad old days', I would've liked to see something like that. Maybe a Jarl siding with the stormcloaks because he wants to take over another Jarls hold. The only person who seems to have any ambitions is Ulfric. I don't think its too much to ask that nobility act like people with power do in real life, which is to say as ambitious and arrogant pricks.

 

[Dark Drakan]

• Skills system is really shallow. One of the things I enjoyed in Morrowind and Oblivion was the class system and having the skills and attributes to go with it. Just having skills I can increase takes some of the fun out of it for me.
• The combat hasn't improved. Its still a lot like oblivion, though NPCs will fall to their knees and yield.

I thought that the fact they added executed kills and stealth kills was an improvement over previous games and the new kill cam for ranged attacks will be a nice addition. Granted overall the combat doesnt differ THAT much from previous games but I think its improved with each game. I also think its better to have cut some of the more unnecessary skills like athletics and the perks work better than just a load of skill points like in previous games. At least you can unlock new variations and new techniques on the way. I also prefer being able to specialise in what areas I want to use rather than being forced to stay within a certain skill set tied in with whatever class I am. Like it stopping me using two handed weapons if I was a mage class etc for example, I wouldnt like that.

 

[Gikoku]

As much as I love Skyrim, without mods the game becomes rather bland after a while on consoles. From the very start it always felt like it was lacking something, despite its huge size. Of course, none of this has stopped the game from keeping me on a leash. I always go back somehow and it interferes with my other games. "Play me Queen. Plaaay me.."

I agree, before all the mods came out I was pushing about 2-300 hours into the game, and there were so many times in the game where I would be traveling and say to myself "God, it would be so much better if such and such was here or there, etc." or "If only this was like that, or if it worked like this instead." Eventually It began to feel a bit bland because these things were missing, so I stopped playing for a while and finally got back into my other games. Of course, the CK finally came out however and the rest is history.

Cons

• I don't think there is enough variation in the faces.
• No downsides to taking drugs. Taking 5 lots of skooma would destroy your intelligence in Oblivion, now theres nothing.
• The combat hasn't improved. Its still a lot like oblivion, though NPCs will fall to their knees and yield.
• The AI needs to respond more. Walking into windhelm with Imperial Armour should make the guards attack me, but instead guards tell me I have 'some nerve' coming here.
• Needs better music for wandering around Skyrim. I could probably get into it more if I could listen to something like 'King and Country' from Oblivion. Which is a shame because I enjoy the battle music.
• There aren't enough voice actors. Its like Patrick Stewart all over again. They hire a famous actor, and then there are no actors for the rest of the characters except a small few. Beth promised 75 voice actors. Theres about 8 in reality.

I agree with all of this. I was disappointed that there are no side-effects to getting drunk in Skyrim, I could down 40 bottles of wine in 10 seconds and continue forward like nothing ever happened. The doofus AI to apparel acknowledgement was also a bummer to me, hearing some Stormcloak willfully claim "The next Imperial I see is dead." while I myself am wearing full Imperial armor "That's the spirit!". The repetitive voice actors is my biggest gripe of them all though, again, I love the Khajiits & Argonians, and I understand they're a minority in the game.. but 1 voice actor for each gender? Yeah, they're good voice actors, but come on, the rest of the cast isn't talented enough to do a Khajiit/Argonian type voice?

It may seem like nitpicking to others, but it's the little things that matter and when combined can make an impact on the overall experience.