Levels: To be or not to be?

[Darg]

Levels: To be or not to be?

In the past few days I have been alternately playing The Elder Scrolls IV Oblivion and of course Fable TLC, and I have come to a realization/crossroads/whatever you want to call it. After playing Oblivion, with its level system and whatnot, and playing Fable, I noticed that the freeform system that doesn't exactly rank you as used in Fable seems to be better. With the whole level system, you are more or less sucked into a monotonous race to up your skills instead of enjoying the game as in Fable. In Fable, you are not ranked by a certain level of skill as much, and it gives the game a more relaxed, freeform air that is rather refreshing in the midst of all these new and upcoming rpgs. So I ask this question to you people of the forums as we wait for Fable 2 and concoct our own ideas about what will be a part of it, are player levels in games a good thing or not?

 

[Dark Drakan]

Re: Levels: To be or not to be?

I quite like player levels, because it gives you a target to get to a certain point and access certain skills. It might seem tedious to get to other level instead of just adding skill points to a bar but i like the sense of achievement when i hit a new level and the new stats reaching a new level brings.

 

[Darg]

Re: Levels: To be or not to be?

I quite like player levels, because it gives you a target to get to a certain point and access certain skills. It might seem tedious to get to other level instead of just adding skill points to a bar but i like the sense of achievement when i hit a new level and the new stats reaching a new level brings.

While this may be true, with it giving you a sense of accomplishment and the initiative to continue on, I found that when you have no particular ranking in Fable, that you are not as focused on it and can just enjoy the game more freely. At times, levels are good, giving you something to reach for, though as you said the new stats and other things that come with a new level, I like the system that Fable had, what with the getting new abilities every time you get enough experience. Sure, I like the skills system of Oblivion, but I have always thought that Fable had a certain interesting style of handling things. I'm just wondering whether or not this will benifit Fable 2 if they were to include it...

 

[Devalion]

Re: Levels: To be or not to be?

Or you could just cheat and make your character exactly how you want (in Oblivion... well I suppose in Fable as well) and enjoy the game without the grind... but then I guess the grind is a big part of the game.

Meh, I cheated and made my character how I wanted them to be, and have been playing through Oblivion (via Oldblivion) and I have loved it. The only downside is when dumb npc's get in the way of my sword while I am trying to kill something and they end up dying. Fingers of the Mountain is a godlike spell btw.

 

[TRA Rotid]

Re: Levels: To be or not to be?

I certainly like Fable system more. Instead of waiting another level there`s always a chance to improve your character anytime (I haven`t played Oblivion so I don`t know how it`s there), when a level comes theres not much to do to just wait for another one... Fable is more interactive.
But still, though Fable-style "leveling" is a good improvement I don`t think they actually made it that good in Fable. Leveling was way too easy, especially with hero save (using it is everyones free will, but still). Whats more, concentrating on one skill was like wasting points - maxing out everything is very very easy.
In Fable 2 I hope to see the same system, but a little harder leveling and being able to concentrate on one or two skills. And maybe making something unavailable for some types of characters. Having a 2,5 m tall "bearman" to sneak around houses is silly... But thats just me.

 

[Dark Drakan]

Re: Levels: To be or not to be?

Thing with Oblivion your skills didnt only improve after each level but the more you used them. The only time it asked of you wanted to level up was when some of your skills had improved enough to level up. So you didnt need to level up to improve some skills, only the core ones.

 

[TRA Rotid]

Re: Levels: To be or not to be?

Thing with Oblivion your skills didnt only improve after each level but the more you used them. The only time it asked of you wanted to level up was when some of your skills had improved enough to level up. So you didnt need to level up to improve some skills, only the core ones.

OK... This is more complex system, yes. I mean - level up = skills + nothing until the next one - is a bit outdated and I believe new games don`t use it anymore. It`s boring and so on... but still, I like Fable.

The more you use the skill, the better it gets - that`s one thing a really like in games.

 

[Dark Drakan]

Re: Levels: To be or not to be?

The more you use the skill, the better it gets - that`s one thing a really like in games.

Thats the main thing i like, saves you having to take time to level up skills you dont use and i think more games should take that on board.

 

[TRA Rotid]

Re: Levels: To be or not to be?

Yes, maybe even Fable. If I think of it now, Fable did lack "classical" skills. We had magic and sneaking, but other things which are common in RPGs.
For example bow skills - higher rate of fire, maybe a skill to shoot two arrows with one shot, etc... Not much, but some would be welcome in Fable 2.

 

[Tsuyu]

Re: Levels: To be or not to be?

In the past few days I have been alternately playing The Elder Scrolls IV Oblivion and of course Fable TLC, and I have come to a realization/crossroads/whatever you want to call it. After playing Oblivion, with its level system and whatnot, and playing Fable, I noticed that the freeform system that doesn't exactly rank you as used in Fable seems to be better. With the whole level system, you are more or less sucked into a monotonous race to up your skills instead of enjoying the game as in Fable. In Fable, you are not ranked by a certain level of skill as much, and it gives the game a more relaxed, freeform air that is rather refreshing in the midst of all these new and upcoming rpgs. So I ask this question to you people of the forums as we wait for Fable 2 and concoct our own ideas about what will be a part of it, are player levels in games a good thing or not?

Amen. I always loathed the leveling system and the things it affected in Morrowind and Oblivion.

Oblivion is like "Oh crap - now I am level X and I need a new set of armour and weapons!" and you go hunting for them, instead of just causually playing the game.

 

[FableFreak]

Re: Levels: To be or not to be?

Fable is all about making your own choices and going at your own pace. If anything is left the same from F1 in F2, that will be it.

 

[NeutronHInc]

Re: Levels: To be or not to be?

I enjoy both styles.

I loved how Fable gave me the freewill to do as I pleased when I pleased.

I also loved how Sacred Underworld and Diablo LOD did their leveling system.

Though you should all realize RPG is not really my strong point for gaming. RTS and FPS is. Long live StarCraft, Age of Mythology, Quake, and UT!

 

[suffering]

Re: Levels: To be or not to be?

i hate levels.... its some thing like a comic on vgcats.... i cant find it but

"you need to be level 40 to wear this hat" thats really gay.... odd i mean....

 

[Darg]

Re: Levels: To be or not to be?

Thing with Oblivion your skills didnt only improve after each level but the more you used them. The only time it asked of you wanted to level up was when some of your skills had improved enough to level up. So you didnt need to level up to improve some skills, only the core ones.

This is probably the reason why some gamers favor Oblivion's system above all others, with its aspect of realism putting quite a different spin on modern rpgs. Some people criticized Fable for having too generic of a system of leveling, but if there are many who like it, I don't see the reason to change it. With the Fable saga's promise of letting you 'be who you want to be', you should focus more on that than whether or not you have to up your skills all the time.

 

[Angel]

Re: Levels: To be or not to be?

Gotta say I am completely clueless about how the whole levelling system works in Oblivion - no shiny green orbs therefore no idea how it works. But then I really don't care - I'm just enjoying exploring and doing the most random of quests like the two I did earlier involving fish and being invisible.

For serious "I've gotta level up and nail that so and so who's trying to take over the world!" players, then I guess it's important- but for me it isn't.

For what it's worth, I liked the Fable way of levelling up, however I didn't like the fact that it was easily over with and then there wasn't much else to strive for. With Oblivion, it is more complicated for the likes of me, so I'm only level 9 - this hacks me off because I have picked up random quest items that I can't drop but can only use if I'm level 17 or above...given my utter ineptitude for gaming, I will be an old grey-haired biddy before I get to that level...on the plus side, there are many skills you need to utilise and improve upon in order to advance and this makes it more challenging...

 

[Dark Drakan]

Re: Levels: To be or not to be?

This is probably the reason why some gamers favor Oblivion's system above all others, with its aspect of realism putting quite a different spin on modern rpgs. Some people criticized Fable for having too generic of a system of leveling, but if there are many who like it, I don't see the reason to change it. With the Fable saga's promise of letting you 'be who you want to be', you should focus more on that than whether or not you have to up your skills all the time.

Problem is the Fable system was way to basic and if they want to make an improved simple system it needs to be much more advanced than previous one. It will remain a simple system this way it will have enough customisation options to keep beginner and intermediate players happy.

 

[Hexadecimal]

Re: Levels: To be or not to be?

I like the fact that in Oblivion my skills go up as I use them, and with every skill individually...
I don't have to kill a guy with my bow to have my skill at lockpicking increase, like in Fable... how does that even make sense? what does killing have to do with lockpicking? and what do bows have to do with doors?
Maybe some people thought that Oblivion's system was a little too complicated or too specific, but Fable's system was far too simplistic... to the point where, in incidences like the one I just mentioned, it ends up making no damn sense...
perhaps a system which used the best of both could be better