Multi-Antagonists

[WittyUsername]

I really have absolutely zero hope this will be in Fable 4 -- more so, I have less hopes that Fable 4 will be any good after seeing the steady decrease in what made Fable so special since TLC.

However, I still want to get an opinion on things. Fable's supposed to be "Choose your own path" with a heavy emphasis on being good or evil. Even downgraded, those elements existed in Fable 2 and somewhat on 3. However, there's a problem with this: Why is it the antagonists are generally evil with an obvious problem? I forgive Fable 1 -- it was the first game. Fable 2 and 3 loosened the screws up by giving a neutral-evil type antagonists -- then the Crawler for Fable 3's second half.

What would really make the game a bit more interesting would be if they took a Fallout: New Vegas approach with it. They could make multiple antagonists that reflect differing alignments.

Let's say the game was set at a time when the Chapel of Skorm and Temple of Avo was at its highest. The two temples had a HUGE military and you could join either one or crush them both and that was the game's central theme? I think it'd be great.

But rather, most of the Fable titles set up us with only one bad guy, starting you off as a generic good guy, who can became evil later. Rather, there should be multiple guys you could adopt as your enemy, even if they were good from the start.

I just think they should balance the whole yin and yang thing, particularly with their central plot.

Meh?

 

[This is my Albion]

If its too much work, Lionhead won't do it.

But its a great concept much like everyone's point of view for fable 4. Lenop had brought up a great idea what to do with the dying franchise. Ssx Britain had a great storyline possibility and many more. It is a damn shame that these ideas will not even be touched on (unless Daniel Ray really goes into an internship with Lionhead studios.)

 

[WittyUsername]

(unless Daniel Ray really goes into an internship with Lionhead studios.)

I'm unaware of this news, being new. However, I'm sure an intern won't get much say on what the franchise does. I'm sure there's a number of real employees who have great ideas and just get ignored by the higher ups.

I'm willing to guess that it's not only the fans who complain.

 

[WittyUsername]

In sum, like it or not, what any franchise needs is new ideas. Good or bad, ideas mean progress/growth. Keep thinkin'!

I feel it would suit Fable being built on the good or evil decisions. Being that you're supposed to choose your alignment, why can't you join in with the evil guy?

It would have been interesting if you could have joined Jack of Blades. Though, characteristically, Jack probably would have killed you, considering he was willing to off Maze.

As far as faction vs faction, that's simply an example, and more common. It could have even gone with, in Fable 2, helping Lucien with his experiments and taking down Theresa or helping Theresa to stop Lucien.

 

[Daniel Ray]

IBeing that you're supposed to choose your alignment, why can't you join in with the evil guy?

It would have been interesting if you could have joined Jack of Blades. Though, characteristically, Jack probably would have killed you, considering he was willing to off Maze..

Actually, if you really were an evil guy, you would off Jack's head anyway. An evil dude's worst enemy is another evil dude. This was potrayed (somewhat) in the first Fable, where you have a choice to take the Sword of Aeons after killing Jack. If they gave a choice to join Jack, you would be his underling, and Jack would be the one with the Sword. If you were evil, you'd want that Sword for yourself.

Sadly, this was never brought down to the following Fable games. In Fable 2, the only "evil" thing you could do in the end was get that 1 Million Gold wish. Not so evil, and obsolete when people discovered 1 Million Gold is quite easy to get when you invested enough.

Fable 3, you can be the evil tyrant, but are you really evil? You have a good purpose to be a tyrant: to save as much of your kingdom as possible, which makes you very neutral yourself.

If only, YOU could be the antagonist for once. Or twice. A REAL antagonist. That would be a great Fable game.

Let's say the game was set at a time when the Chapel of Skorm and Temple of Avo was at its highest. The two temples had a HUGE military and you could join either one or crush them both and that was the game's central theme? I think it'd be great.

They gave some lore in TLC about the War between the followers of Skorm and Avo. That would be a really cool game concept, one that actually fits with Fable's lore. That, and there's a chance of making an RTS out of this bit of lore. Fable: Divine War anyone?

It is a damn shame that these ideas will not even be touched on (unless Daniel Ray really goes into an internship with Lionhead studios.)

Shhhhhhhhh..... if there were any Lionhead employees reading this, they might recognise me!

However, I'm sure an intern won't get much say on what the franchise does. I'm sure there's a number of real employees who have great ideas and just get ignored by the higher ups.

I'm willing to guess that it's not only the fans who complain.

You never know... Once I'm in, I shall ninja around with my Dishonored mask on, interrogate lowly employees who usually have no say in the design of the game, and finally make sure all the ideas I've collected from interrogating and reading this forum get to the drawing board. And then, I'll sneak into the Lead Designer's bedroom, and scare him into reading all those ideas in the morning, like I'm a nightmare... :devil:

 

[Cain]

If only, YOU could be the antagonist for once. Or twice. A REAL antagonist. That would be a great Fable game.

Um, you can't be the antagonist if you're the player. The antagonist is the character who opposes action in the setting, in this case, the player characters actions. You can only ever be the protagonist in video games. I think what you mean is a Villain Protagonist.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VillainProtagonist

 

[WittyUsername]

Actually, if you really were an evil guy, you would off Jack's head anyway. An evil dude's worst enemy is another evil dude

Of course, that's where a choice comes in. One would have you join Jack, and when you do, near the end, you could be a permanent follower of Jack (which would have been showed in the ending cutscene or that wall art (Just saying Jack likes you enough to think you have use for him in his regime)) or initiate a final boss fight where you become the power holder.

They gave some lore in TLC about the War between the followers of Skorm and Avo. That would be a really cool game concept, one that actually fits with Fable's lore. That, and there's a chance of making an RTS out of this bit of lore. Fable: Divine War anyone?

Think it'd make a decent spin-off title. Not sure how I feel about it being an RTS. I do like them, just wouldn't feel fably to me.

You never know... Once I'm in, I shall ninja around with my Dishonored mask on, interrogate lowly employees who usually have no say in the design of the game, and finally make sure all the ideas I've collected from interrogating and reading this forum get to the drawing board. And then, I'll sneak into the Lead Designer's bedroom, and scare him into reading all those ideas in the morning, like I'm a nightmare...

lol

Well, if there's any chance in hell of you fixing Fable, you'd be the "Hero of Projectego"

 

[Daniel Ray]

Um, you can't be the antagonist if you're the player. The antagonist is the character who opposes action in the setting, in this case, the player characters actions. You can only ever be the protagonist in video games. I think what you mean is a Villain Protagonist.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VillainProtagonist

What was I thinking.... the player has to be the protagonist, no matter what... *Feels stupid*.
Okay... how about being the villain protagonist, like in that link of yours, then? Like in Overlord, or even Dungeon Keeper.

 

[WittyUsername]

I always wondered about slasher films. Like, is Freddy Kruger the protagonist there? Or the random teenager who beats him?

 

[Cain]

What was I thinking.... the player has to be the protagonist, no matter what... *Feels stupid*.
Okay... how about being the villain protagonist, like in that link of yours, then? Like in Overlord, or even Dungeon Keeper.

Don't feel stupid. I only recently learnt that the Protagonist is not the main character or most heroic, but rather the person who acts. Considering how the term comes from ancient greece, and in the 2000+ years since then the protagonist has been the hero for the most part, it's understandable that people would link the two together. Hell, Anti-Hero had a completely different meaning when it was concieved. Back then it meant a unlikely hero with doubts and flaws, which is pretty much what most of our heroes are today. It's funny how things change.


As for Villain protagonists, I would definitely like that. But I'd prefer the evil and villainous choices to be more self-serving evil rather than evil for the sake of being evil. I'm tired of the quest choices being help the villagers, or rape all of the women in the village and then eat all the babies.

I always wondered about slasher films. Like, is Freddy Kruger the protagonist there? Or the random teenager who beats him?

In Slashers, it is the serial killer who is the protagonist, as he is the one causing the events of the film, and is also the character with the most exposition. While the teenager may be the hero, it dosen't mean they are the protagonist.

 

[WittyUsername]

While the teenager may be the hero, it dosen't mean they are the protagonist.

Well, I knew that. I know the difference between hero and protagonists. What threw me off is the fact that the random teenager tends to get more screen time.

 

[Cain]

Or cases like Freddy vs Jason... Protagonist vs Protagonist?

More a case of choose your own protagonist. It's like most of Shakespeare's history plays, you choose who is the protagonist and antagonist, because it's entirely subjective.