Dragon Ball related questions

[Zjuggernaut]

Ok ok, but I think we can all agree Vegeta is a god damn badass.

 

[Necromancer]

Ah, I forgot all about that.

Whaaaaa-? Oh come on, that part was amazing. I had so much more respect for Tien after that, and that's easily one of the most memorable things any of the humans have ever done.

 

[D3m190d]

Unmemorable? Don't be so hasty, there.

I saw that episode yesterday for the first time. Seriously. I mean, what. How did you pick that scene??

 

[Zjuggernaut]

I watched it for the first time yesterday too. Watching Cell transform into his final form as we speak.. Vegeta and Krillin are noobs.

 

[D3m190d]

I watched it for the first time yesterday too. Watching Cell transform into his final form as we speak.. Vegeta and Krillin are noobs.

Who cares, Krillin is awesijum =|.

 

[queenofdisco]

Can anyone figure out why Gohan is potentially more powerful than both Goku & Vegeta? Is it because he's half human and half saiyan and has easier access to his emotions, as saiyans are quite dried up husks in the emotion department.

In so is goten, and pan stronger? Or just half and half of each race like Gohan & Trunks?

 

[Gikoku]

Whaaaaa-? Oh come on, that part was amazing. I had so much more respect for Tien after that, and that's easily one of the most memorable things any of the humans have ever done.

Perhaps, but I didn't like what Toriyama (and beyond that, Funimation) did to his character overall for DBZ. His personality was vastly different and he came off more intelligent back in the original DB (albeit cocky), whereas he was given more out of character dialogue in Z and became too much of a background character for my tastes.

If I had to pick a memorable moment of his from Z, it'd have to be when he attempted to avenge Chiaotzu in the Saiyan arc and died trying. Poor guy.

Can anyone figure out why Gohan is potentially more powerful than both Goku & Vegeta? Is it because he's half human and half saiyan and has easier access to his emotions, as saiyans are quite dried up husks in the emotion department.

In so is goten, and pan stronger? Or just half and half of each race like Gohan & Trunks?

I always thought Toriyama did it for the sake of entertainment and to perhaps appeal to the younger viewers who get bullied often in their lives. Really, it made little sense how an inexperienced child could end up being superior than a highly trained warrior such as Vegeta & Goku, simply because he's having a rage fit. Same thing with Broly, a Saiyan whose source of true power is driven by endless rage rather than any skill or technique. Purely entertainment and makes little sense.

I don't recall Goten or Trunks ever having any power fits like Gohan had, these kids just somehow happened to be gifted with SSJ power just like that and made it their plaything. Everything was a game to them, little reason to rage over anything. As for Pan, they did have a few moments where she pulled a Gohan and had bursts of great power.. but it all came off as comical and couldn't be taken seriously (I blame the bad writing team).

 

[D3m190d]

I don't recall Goten or Trunks ever having any power fits like Gohan had, these kids just somehow happened to be gifted with SSJ power just like that and made it their plaything. Everything was a game to them, little reason to rage over anything. As for Pan, they did have a few moments where she pulled a Gohan and had bursts of great power.. but it all came off as comical and couldn't be taken seriously (I blame the bad writing team).

[Charging power]''HaaaaaahhhhhHHHH!!!!!!!''[Turns super saiyan]''A NUN, AN ASTRONAUT AND A MUSICIAN WALK INTO A BAR''

/comical

 

[TRA Rotid]

Pikkon greatest character cuz he has the most badass theme.

 

[mjmarin12]

Has anyone checked out the DVD versions of Kai? I picked up one, cant remember at the moment which parts, it was from Goku defeating Frieza to First Form Cell taking out the cities. Its true to manga, bloody, and an appropiate amount of swearing. Voice-acting is superb. Still have to get used to Gohan's voice, but it grows on you.

Also to the person who said Wrath of the Dragon was the best DBZ movie, I highly disagree. The movie was just another "Goku pwns everyone story". Hirudegan knocked out Ultimate Gohan, Vegeta, and Gotenks in one slap and all Goku had to do was tell off its mother then punch it. I was really giddy when Vegeta showed up then all my hope was dashed. Dont get me wrong I loved how they stayed true to his character but come on now....Someone in there has something against Vegeta. I really enjoyed the Cooler movies though, loved the second one.

Also the reason Gohan is as powerful as Goku and Vegeta and Goten and Pan aren't is because with each generation the Sayain blood whittles away under the human blood. Gohan has half and half, Goten probably 1/3 Sayain 1/3 human, and so forth. Now for Trunks im not sure, he is Vegeta's first-born but he doesn't compare to Gohan. Maybe if Vegeta had Trunks undergo the same training as Gohan did then he might have a chance.

 

[Gikoku]

Also the reason Gohan is as powerful as Goku and Vegeta and Goten and Pan aren't is because with each generation the Sayain blood whittles away under the human blood. Gohan has half and half, Goten probably 1/3 Sayain 1/3 human, and so forth. Now for Trunks im not sure, he is Vegeta's first-born but he doesn't compare to Gohan. Maybe if Vegeta had Trunks undergo the same training as Gohan did then he might have a chance.

Gohan, Trunks, and Goten are all in the same generation in terms of birth so you're wrong on that part. Where as Pan is a next generation Saiyan (being Gohan's daughter), her great lack of Saiyan blood is why she cannot become a SSJ.

Of course, the whole "with each generation the Saiyan blood dwindles" fact is completely thrown out the window at the end of GT with Goku Jr. and Vegeta Jr.

Goku Jr. is Pan's grandson, yet he's a super saiyan? Talk about lore inconsistencies.

 

[cheezMcNASTY]

I decided to give GT a chance and it isn't as bad as I thought. The Baby saga was pretty epic but it seemed like once they hit SSJ4 everything was either too easy or impossible.

Also noticed a few shortcuts in the animation and I'm sure I'm not the only one. For starters the fights were less intricately staged. Also noticed that they didn't once try to show the transformation to SSJ4. The camera always went elsewhere and came back.

 

[Necromancer]

Can anyone figure out why Gohan is potentially more powerful than both Goku & Vegeta? Is it because he's half human and half saiyan and has easier access to his emotions, as saiyans are quite dried up husks in the emotion department.

In so is goten, and pan stronger? Or just half and half of each race like Gohan & Trunks?

Also the reason Gohan is as powerful as Goku and Vegeta and Goten and Pan aren't is because with each generation the Sayain blood whittles away under the human blood. Gohan has half and half, Goten probably 1/3 Sayain 1/3 human, and so forth. Now for Trunks im not sure, he is Vegeta's first-born but he doesn't compare to Gohan. Maybe if Vegeta had Trunks undergo the same training as Gohan did then he might have a chance.

Like Gikoku said, Gohan, Goten, and Trunks are all half saiyan and half human, while Pan is one quarter saiyan and three quarters human.

Now, when it comes to Gohan's strength, it has nothing to do with his races or bloodline. He was just born with a great amount of latent power by chance. I should also point out that before Gohan became Ultimate Gohan, the only time he was stronger than Goku and Vegeta was when he was able to turn into a super saiyan 2 and they weren't. Once they achieved that form during the seven years in between Cell and Buu, they surpassed him in strength again. Now, when he finally did become Ultimate Gohan, that's when he reached the pinnacle of his strength. Having his latent power unlocked by the Elder Kai definitely made him stronger than Vegeta, but not Goku. This is simply because Goku can achieve super saiyan 3. We see that Super Buu obliterated Ultimate Gohan after he absorbed Gotenks, but when Goku turned into a super saiyan 3, he was able to hold off Super Buu even after Buu had absorbed Goten, Trunks, Piccolo, and Ultimate Gohan, and Goku even held off Kid Buu. Plus, in The Wrath of the Dragon, Ultimate Gohan couldn't beat Hirudegarn, but super saiyan 3 Goku did.

Pikkon greatest character cuz he has the most badass theme.

Ah yes, Pikkon's awesome.

Also to the person who said Wrath of the Dragon was the best DBZ movie, I highly disagree. The movie was just another "Goku pwns everyone story". Hirudegan knocked out Ultimate Gohan, Vegeta, and Gotenks in one slap and all Goku had to do was tell off its mother then punch it. I was really giddy when Vegeta showed up then all my hope was dashed. Dont get me wrong I loved how they stayed true to his character but come on now....Someone in there has something against Vegeta. I really enjoyed the Cooler movies though, loved the second one.

I will admit that the final fight of that movie wasn't that amazing, but one of the biggest reasons that movie is my favorite one is because it has Tapion, who is one of my favorite characters. Plus, the Dragon's Fist is one of the coolest moves there is. But I guess I just really liked the overall feel of that movie too. I'm not 100% sure what it was, but I just really like that movie. Some of my other favorite movies are Broly The Legendary Super Saiyan, Fusion Reborn, and Bojack Unbound (this one is probably my second favorite). I also like Super Android 13 and the Cooler movies, but I think the first Cooler movie was better than the second.

Gohan, Trunks, and Goten are all in the same generation in terms of birth so you're wrong on that part. Where as Pan is a next generation Saiyan (being Gohan's daughter), her great lack of Saiyan blood is why she cannot become a SSJ.

Of course, the whole "with each generation the Saiyan blood dwindles" fact is completely thrown out the window at the end of GT with Goku Jr. and Vegeta Jr.

Goku Jr. is Pan's grandson, yet he's a super saiyan? Talk about lore inconsistencies.

Goku Jr. and Vegeta Jr.'s transformations seemed pretty legitimate to me. I watched GT fairly recently, and I don't remember anything about Pan's lack of saiyan blood being the reason she didn't turn into a super saiyan.

Also noticed that they didn't once try to show the transformation to SSJ4. The camera always went elsewhere and came back.

Keep watching and you'll see it in the Shadow Dragon Saga.

 

[Gikoku]

Goku Jr. and Vegeta Jr.'s transformations seemed pretty legitimate to me. I watched GT fairly recently, and I don't remember anything about Pan's lack of saiyan blood being the reason she didn't turn into a super saiyan.

Was translated from a Japanese magazine interview with Toriyama and he stated so. Not to mention, the lore of saiyan blood diminishing through each generation. With that in mind, there is no other Saiyan for Pan to have offspring with (aside from possibly Trunks) to pass down a good portion of Saiyan blood.. yet somehow after 2 more generations below Pan -- Goku Jr. and Vegeta Jr. have enough to go full blown SSJ.

It just doesn't make any sense, but considering GT was mainly written by Toei and not Toriyama, it's not surprising they have inconsistencies.

 

[Necromancer]

Was translated from a Japanese magazine interview with Toriyama and he stated so. Not to mention, the lore of saiyan blood diminishing through each generation. With that in mind, there is no other Saiyan for Pan to have offspring with (aside from possibly Trunks) to pass down a good portion of Saiyan blood.. yet somehow after 2 more generations below Pan -- Goku Jr. and Vegeta Jr. have enough to go full blown SSJ.

Hmm, I wasn't aware of that. It'll give me something to ponder over the next few days or so.

It just doesn't make any sense, but considering GT was mainly written by Toei and not Toriyama, it's not surprising they have inconsistencies.

Yea, those inconsistencies really bugged me. I think one of the biggest ones was Gohan turning super saiyan. The least they could have done was have an explanation for that. The biggest one in my book however, was how Frieza and Cell couldn't die because they were already dead. I mean, during the fight against Kid Buu on the Supreme Kai's planet, Vegeta was still dead, and Goku warned him that if he was killed by Buu while he was dead, he wouldn't exist anymore. As far as I'm concerned, that's something that GT was just dead wrong about.

 

[queenofdisco]

Plus, in The Wrath of the Dragon, Ultimate Gohan couldn't beat Hirudegarn, but super saiyan 3 Goku did.

Goku Jr. and Vegeta Jr.'s transformations seemed pretty legitimate to me. I watched GT fairly recently, and I don't remember anything about Pan's lack of saiyan blood being the reason she didn't turn into a super saiyan.

Keep watching and you'll see it in the Shadow Dragon Saga.

Dragonball Gt doesn't count. Akira Toriyama never wrote it, therefore its not canon. However I'll watch GT pretty soon, I stopped watching it half way through, so I'll pick it up again soon.

Also as Giki said the kids were done super saiyan for the idea of entertainment but if it were to be kept more serious, Piccolo would be the strongest after Goku & Vegeta wouldn't he? As He's a super Namekian, and once formed with the old Kami-Sama he is as powerful as SSJ1.

 

[cheezMcNASTY]

Keep watching and you'll see it in the Shadow Dragon Saga.

I had finished the shadow dragon saga when I wrote that. They didn't once show it.
They showed a frame by frame of the silhouette of a monkey shrinking, but never what actually changes. Let alone all the times Goku transforms and trades in his kid body for an adult one temporarily, which would have been nice to actually see if only once.

 

[Gikoku]

Anyone ever get annoyed how the art style would change from episode to episode in DBZ? I understand Toei had to cut costs and save time, so they had to split it amongst different studios such as Studio Cockpit, Seigasha, Shindou Pro, etc. But I felt it messed up the flow of things and damaged some of the immersion for me. How you go from beautiful artwork all the way to something that looks like it was drawn by a novice is bothersome.

 

[Necromancer]

If I had to pick a memorable moment of his from Z, it'd have to be when he attempted to avenge Chiaotzu in the Saiyan arc and died trying. Poor guy.

Oh, forgot about this in my last few posts.

I'd call that his second most memorable moment. I just think about how incredibly strong Cell is in his second form. I mean, he's powerful enough to take out a super saiyan. It took an ascended super saiyan to take him down, so you'd expect virtually nothing to happen if a character like Tien tried to fight him at all. And his thought process and reasoning at that part was just so noble and selfless.

Dragonball Gt doesn't count. Akira Toriyama never wrote it, therefore its not canon.

That's a common misconception. Toriyama's name appears as an author in the credits of GT. He was very heavily involved in its making. He even designed a lot of character appearances, and he designed super saiyan 4. Although, even if he didn't write it, I don't see how that wouldn't make it canon. He owns the rights to the series, so if he didn't want GT to be a part of the series, he would have stopped it from being made.

Also as Giki said the kids were done super saiyan for the idea of entertainment but if it were to be kept more serious, Piccolo would be the strongest after Goku & Vegeta wouldn't he? As He's a super Namekian, and once formed with the old Kami-Sama he is as powerful as SSJ1.

If we're just talking about the Z fighters, Piccolo would be the fifth strongest, assuming we're not including fusions. Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, and Future Trunks are all stronger than him, though I admit that Gohan and Future Trunks did not surpass him until they reached super saiyan 2 and ascended super saiyan respectively.

I had finished the shadow dragon saga when I wrote that. They didn't once show it.
They showed a frame by frame of the silhouette of a monkey shrinking, but never what actually changes. Let alone all the times Goku transforms and trades in his kid body for an adult one temporarily, which would have been nice to actually see if only once.

You finished the Shadow Dragon Saga already? Because that's the last one. Perhaps it's in the Baby Saga when Earth is being evacuated. I'm not entirely sure when it was at this point, but I know for a fact that you get to see Goku go straight from his kid base form to super saiyan 4 in his adult body. It's at a part when he's holding up a building, and you see the transformation from a camera angle inside the building looking out the window at him. I specifically remember this part because I felt the same way you did while I was watching GT. I wanted a good view of the transformation, and I was quite surprised to finally see it. I ended up watching it a few times to sort of...study it after that. I just wish I knew which episode it was.

 

[queenofdisco]

That's a common misconception. Toriyama's name appears as an author in the credits of GT. He was very heavily involved in its making. He even designed a lot of character appearances, and he designed super saiyan 4. Although, even if he didn't write it, I don't see how that wouldn't make it canon. He owns the rights to the series, so if he didn't want GT to be a part of the series, he would have stopped it from being made.

I read this on the Dragonball wiki earlier, was quite shocked. Yet he wasn't directly a writer I'd consirder it non canon, and more fan-fiction..... in the most awful sense imaginable

Alot like the Balverine Order for Fable.

If we're just talking about the Z fighters, Piccolo would be the fifth strongest, assuming we're not including fusions. Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, and Future Trunks are all stronger than him, though I admit that Gohan and Future Trunks did not surpass him until they reached super saiyan 2 and ascended super saiyan respectively.

I was excluding fusions, and the kids. As I said if the show were kept to a more realistic standard Goku & Vegeta would be the only Super Saiyans. The kids would never reach SSJ as it took Goku & Vegeta to their 30's/40's to achieve it, so if that logic were kept in the show Piccolo would be 3rd strongest.

Personally I think the series went down hill when they got back to Earth after Goku defeated Frieza on Planet Namek. And you can see in the manga Toriyama meant to end the series after Cell was defeated. Alongside the teenage Gohan achieving SSJ1&2 and the bad plot line of time travel being thrown into the mix. Then even Volume 20 'The New Generation' made me face-palm when Trunks and Goten could become Super Saiyan (and Vegeta asking how it was possible, with an no reason ever to be given). After all that happening I lost hope. But I'm still a fan for some reason. :blink:

With the Z fighters all back on Earth(after the battle with Frieza), the series could of gone anywhere. But where did it go? Time travel. :'(