Discussion in 'Bowerstone South Tavern' started by Kerryusep, Apr 5, 2019.
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are u guys going to see the joker?
i liked all batman movies so far, this looks pretty interesting
I really like Joaquin Phoenix so im interested in seeing his performance.
Unusual first post but I'll bite. Firstly, an answer to the question. Yes, I'm going to see it.
Secondly, some talking points.
He can't be worse than Jared Leto. I feel Joaquin's appearance and mannerisms make him a more appropriate Joker choice, and allowing him to have an on-screen backstory will make him more relatable and sympathetic. He also more closely resembles the styles of the Joker that I prefer, which is to say less Jack and more Heath but still a healthy combination of both. That might not make sense, but I've already got hours into this conversation with my friend group and this is how I have to explain it to them.
It does mildly irk me that they deprive him of his earlier origins. There's something dark and twisted about Batman mourning his own involvement in creating the Joker and that's the kind of psychological anguish I've come to expect from DC. But I get it. This isn't a Batman movie, it's a Joker movie. In the comics, and in Heath Ledger's portrayal, he's always lying about his origins anyway.
I'm gonna be a downer and say I don't like the concept of this movie. It serves no purpose, because it is an origin story to a nonexistent character. This joker doesn't exist elsewhere; it has no connections to previous incarnations (and it couldn't have). Plus, as already noted in the previous post, Joker doesn't have a canon origin so what purpose does this movie have? It could be a beautifully crafted tragic story and a masterpiece of a movie, but the sole fact that it's a Joker movie just screams audience exploitation. Also Joker without Batman just doesn't work. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the main principle of the character hinges on the dynamic between the two. Take the Bat away and Joker pretty much loses his entire essence, because he mostly becomes another nihilistic, anarchistic psychopath.
Joaquin is great, though, no doubt about that.
I recently watched Suicide Squad and I gotta say all the hooplah over Jared Leto’s Joker was pretty pointless simply due to the fact the guy was barely in the film 10 minutes tops. I was more underwhelmed with Will Smith as Deadshot. Don’t get me wrong I love me some Will Smith but his portrayal of DS was... meh.
As for this movie, time will tell. I’m wouldn’t say I’m exactly hyped for it or anything but it doesn’t look awful. I more or less agree with everything Rotid said. But I doubt it’ll be the worst movie ever.
Isnt it similar in some ways to his origin in 'The Killing Joke' and him being a failed stand up comedian? I dont know if it uses any more story threads from that adaptation than that but that part is at least similar and a young Bruce Wayne is rumoured to be in the trailer so maybe they are going down the 'Joker killed Bruce Waynes Parents' route.
Forgot that the Joker counted himself among the number of villains who killed Bruce Wayne's parents. At this point it's like, who hasn't?
What about that arc where Bruce dies and his father and mother become Batman and Joker respectively.
They should call it Jester or Clown. Detach itself from the DC universe. Once the new batch of culture is curated we'll have to completely forget about this movie.
That’s my thought too. Like what happens after this movie? Will Joaquin’s Joker be in any new Batman movies?
At this point in time they don’t even have a Batman do they?
Nope. Affleck quit. Don’t blame him to be perfectly honest.
I get the vibe of this being a straight one-off film, rather than yet another tired franchise trail (least I hope anyway). Which is fine with me, like when we get all those countless comic book mini-stories that are self-contained in lore. Adaptation or not, it's different and refreshing and creates the image of the Joker as a person; a man. A damaged individual you could believably bump into on the streets. Compared to his usual gimmick of a psychopath seemingly beyond human and scientific comprehension, that feels larger than life.
What I don't want however, is them making the Joker into a sympathetic soul or a misunderstood good guy. Like Heath Ledger's Joker, you can still have a fresh & unique take on him, but he's still the Joker to the core without feeling like some imitation or a completely different person.
I cant see an actor like Joaquin Phoenix being tied to a character for a franchise as his acting roles are sporadic at the best of times (sometimes 1-2 year breaks) so you are probably right.
Agreed. That was one thing that bothered me about Suicide Squad’s Joker. How they portrayed him as someone that actually loved and cared about Harley. Um no. The Joker is horrible to Harley. Manipulates her. Abuses her mentally, emotionally and physically. People actually glamorise their relationship and it bothers me so much. He’s a bad guy. The very archetype of “no hope.”