Zeitgeist

[Arseface]

Zeitgeist

Ok... So I'm fresh out of just having my mind blown. And not in a good way.

If you don't know what I'm talking about, do yourself a favour and see this movie. Actually strike that: If you haven't seen this movie, see it now!

Forget thriller movies, this documentary literally scared me. It starts off talking about religion, specifically Christianity, and uses a whole bunch of comparative mythology (which I really dig) to prove that Jesus (as well as everything else) is just a myth, and that the Bible is just a story. I basically already believed that anyway, this is just stoking the fire.

The next part goes about debunking the official story behind 9/11, which presented some really groovy evidence which emphatically supports the idea that it was a US inside job. I understood the basics of this before, and was open to the idea. Now I'm much more inclined to believe it. But that wasn't the scary part.

The last section goes about explaining the world banking system, and it's various pitfalls. If this is to be believed (and I currently see no reason as to why not), then all the major wars in the past century have been orchestrated by the various corporations purely for profit. At least from an American standpoint. This ties in well with the whole 9/11 theory, and that it was orchestrated by the US government to generate fear in support of the whole "War on Terror" thing, which is sort of a big deal. That's just getting started.

It goes on to say that the corporations behind all of this (particularly this one Rockerfella guy) are controlling the media and the edication system to keep Americans from thinking "too much", and being able to see just how much they are being manipulated.

It finished by stipulating that those same guys are eventually after a single world government, with everyone being microchipped with all their personal information - bank accounts, identity - all on this chip, and that if anyone decides that they don't like the system, then their microchip get's turned off. I'm not sure how true this last bit is, but it's definitely something to think about.

I quite literally started panicing at that point. My heart is still beating pretty fast.

What do you guys think?

 

[Skotekal]

Re: Zeitgeist

Sounds like some stupid conspiracy movie meant to scare people. And of course the War on Terror was for profit! You honestly think the government would waste time for a little revenge? Oil. Straight up.

 

[Arseface]

Re: Zeitgeist

I used to think it was an extremist sort of thing too - then I watched it. I'm still skeptical of it (I wouldn't be able to respect myself otherwise), but I now feel alot more wary of the world, in particular the big players.

It's also inspired me to try and go into politics, but who knows how long that urge will last.

 

[Aions]

Re: Zeitgeist

zeitgeist has been in my sig since ive joined this fourm...
i even made a thread about it (just like this one) long ago
what made you finnaly see it

 

[Arseface]

Re: Zeitgeist

I've been meaning to watch it for ages, I just finally got off my arse and did it.

I just finished watching Zeitgeist: Addendum. I like this one better. It's less fear mongering, and more inspirational. Most importantly, it doesn't make claims about things. It (well, for me at least) organises information that I already know in such a way so that I can finally see how corrupt and unsustainable the whole thing is.

 

[Arseface]

Re: Zeitgeist

If you (or anyone else) could provide a pithy breakdown of the points of evidence, I'll happily do my best to 'debunk' them.

I'll do my best to present what I can remember, but bear in mind, I'm presenting Zeitgeist's evidence, not necessarily my own. I haven't had time to properly research the claims (and knowing me, I wont).

Video evidence which strongly supports the idea that the main towers' collapse was a controlled demolition, not to mention the fact that building 7 was demolished in exactly the same fashion, seemingly of it's own accord.

The fact that Bush and Cheney would only submit to questioning by the 9/11 inquiry (enquiry?) on their own terms, ie. both together, no recording of the interview, no transcript, and no witnesses.

The numerous fundamental mathematical inaccuracies in the reasons for the collapse according to the official report. Primarily the fact that the burning temperature of jet fuel is not high enough to melt steel.

The lack of any recognisable aeroplane debris at or around the Shanksville site or the Pentagon.

The fact that NORAD was performing multiple, conflicting wargames which preoccupied or otherwise confused the various mechanisms for air defence.

But especially the fact that the US as a community did not have a collective enemy at the time. The writing was basically on the wall ever since the Soviet Union collapsed. The US didn't have anyone to scapegoat to get what it wanted anymore.

Oh and not to mention that they've been doing this kind of thing for decades. (expanded on below)

And alot more that didn't stay in my tiny mind after the first viewing. I'm sure you'll agree that any of these elements alone is probably not cause for alarm, but together... there's definitely SOMETHING suspicious about the whole deal. The motive is definitely solid

The states got involved in the World Wars to protect our interests, yes. We were selling buttloads of weapons to the allies in the wars, but it wasn't a straight-up transfer, more of a loan. So if they were to fail, we'd be out big bucks, and of course selling weapons to these fallen factions wouldn't sit well with the victors of these wars, so that would have been a threat to our own security.

Six million Jews died and the Japs bombed Pearl Harbor, which serves as a nice and 'righteous' reason to get involved, but the economic core of our involvement was to make sure that the allies lived long enough to pay us back. With all the money that the states owes China, if we were to go to war (with someone that doesn't owe money to China) and it looked like we wouldn't be able to make it on our own and there wasn't a peaceful alternative, you can bet that there will be a Chinese army there to help us out. It is not shameless, it is business.

From what I can recall, this is my rebuttal.

The first World War: Britain and Germany go ape**** at each other, and the US officially declares neutrality, that being what the great majority of the public wants. The corporations, however, are secretly itching to get involved, so as to make some cash. They decide to send the Lusitania and all her civilian passengers into a warzone, despite prior warning from the Germans that they would fire upon any British ship, and even a last minute warning my the German Embassy*. Lo and behold, the Germans destroy the ship along with all her American passengers and surprisingly enough, this ****es off the American people enough to make them want to punish the Germans. The Americans enter the war.

World War II: Similar situation, with the public not wanting to go to war, and the big wigs wanting to... The US knows it cannot be seen as the aggressor, so it cut's off an already warmongering Japan's oil supply, and funds some Chinese (Japans enemy at the time) things, and that's where Pearl Harbour comes from. You guys even ignored a warning us Aussies (only trying to do the right thing) sent you about an advancing Japanese war machine.

Vietnam: Similar situation once again. The Gulf of Tonkin Incident this time being the catalyst for the subsequent invasion. Not only that, the Gulf of Tonkin incident was later proven to have been a fabrication by the US. What's exceptionally ridiculus is what the USA's rules of engagement were. The most ludicrous of which are as follows:

• North Vietnamese anti-aircraft missile systems could not be bombed until they were known to be operational
• No enemy could be pursued once they crossed the border of Laos or Cambodia. And most revealing of all..
• The most critical strategic targets were not allowed to be attacked unless initiated via high military officials.

Sounds like somebody doesn't want to win a war.

*

Spoiler

TRAVELLERS intending to embark on the Atlantic voyage are reminded that a state of war exists between Germany and her allies and Great Britain and her allies; that the zone of war includes the waters adjacent to the British Isles; that, in accordance with formal notice given by the Imperial German Government, vessels flying the flag of Great Britain, or any of her allies, are liable to destruction in those waters and that travellers sailing in the war zone on the ships of Great Britain or her allies do so at their own risk.

Rockefeller got rich from American oil. Iran, UAE, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, I think Oman too, a handful of other OPEC countries in the world, and Venezuela where we unfortunately get most of our oil, how does buying oil from these countries make Rockefeller rich? Not that I like him, I don't, but we need to be fair here.

I think that perhaps there is some truth to corporate and media involvement in politics, but not with 9/11.

I think that perhaps there is some truth to media biases, but not with 9/11.

Really? You think there might be some corporate involvement in politics? Do you ever wonder where the various political parties get their cash? It's entirely funded by the corporations! In return, the parties do what the corporations want them too.

I think that perhaps there is some truth to some people and organizations trying to steer us towards a one-world government with a balanced global currency and a balanced standard of living where one day someone might suggest that it would be a good idea to have everyone microchipped 'for their convenience', but I don't think that has anything to do with 9/11.

Think about it. A one world government essentially means absolute power for that government. I'm sure we will all agree that any one body having absolute power is a bad thing.

 

[Tyloric]

Re: Zeitgeist

Two things:

One, it is a historical fact that Jesus exist(s/ed). Whether he is the son of God or not is another question.
Two, this is a bunch of conspiracy bull**** and you should be ashamed for even considering any of it. lol

 

[Necromancer]

Re: Zeitgeist

Zeitgeist does sound like some insane conspiracy theory movie that just says "the corporations are taking over!" when you explain it, but when you watch it, you realize that the people behind it are actually very intelligent, and they know what they're talking about. I'm not saying I believe every bit of information in their movie. I don't. But it is well thought out and somewhat enlightening. You need to watch this movie before passing judgment.

 

[Tsuyu]

Re: Zeitgeist

I think it was Penn from Penn & Teller who said something along the lines of: If a government is powerful enough to attack its own country like that, how hard would it be for them to silence people who make these types of movies?

The very fact that the movies exist sorta discredits them, in a way.

 

[Necromancer]

Re: Zeitgeist

You want to talk about corporations taking over, okay, let's do that.

I never said anything about wanting to discuss corporations taking over.

 

[Firis]

Re: Zeitgeist

Zeitgeist:
Religion: One of the prime factors of my dismisal of religion.
9/11: Plausible, quite plausible, I refrain from giving my opinion on it.
Corporations: They have ALWAYS been minipulative cluster****s that steal money and cause wars, but I doubt they are takign over the world any time soon.

 

[Purple Nurple]

Re: Zeitgeist

Wow when I first read this I thought it would be a bunch of douchebag potheads talking about how there's a great conspiracy over 9/11 and how the corporations are 'raping the world for money'. It still might be, as I've only seen the religion section, but it does sound plausible and interesting.

 

[Tsuyu]

Re: Zeitgeist

So.... I see nobody has replied as an response to my comment yet...

 

[Zarkes]

Re: Zeitgeist

Sounds like some stupid conspiracy movie meant to scare people. And of course the War on Terror was for profit! You honestly think the government would waste time for a little revenge? Oil. Straight up.

Its not even for their oil. They are using the American Army to destabalize the middleeast so that their will bve no opposition to Isreal when it becomes the world power after America's upcoming economic demise.

Two things:

One, it is a historical fact that Jesus exist(s/ed). Whether he is the son of God or not is another question.
Two, this is a bunch of conspiracy bull**** and you should be ashamed for even considering any of it. lol

It's not a historical fact that Jesus existed lol, yeah right dont believe anything unless everyone does right? Like flies to the trap. That post sounded like its been repeated over and over again until it came time for you to say it.

I think it was Penn from Penn & Teller who said something along the lines of: If a government is powerful enough to attack its own country like that, how hard would it be for them to silence people who make these types of movies?

The very fact that the movies exist sorta discredits them, in a way.

We live in a democracy, they cant control us with force or we will rebel so they must control our minds. They work both sides the business side and fear mongering side putting all the conspiratists together. If ever there is a website with real information regarding how the world works it is attacked with viruses and its servers are taken out.

Zeitgeist:
Religion: One of the prime factors of my dismisal of religion.
9/11: Plausible, quite plausible, I refrain from giving my opinion on it.
Corporations: They have ALWAYS been minipulative cluster****s that steal money and cause wars, but I doubt they are takign over the world any time soon.

Religion is a form of spiritual perversion meant to keep your mind from growing. Corporations own the world lmao I cant believe people are still discussing it like this. They make up a web over the Earth with no borders or loyalty to any one part of it, they want it ALL.

So, religion is why you dismiss religion. The moon exists too, do you dismiss that as well?

Corporate expansion is the heart of capitalism, a global government would take that away, so I'll agree that corporations won't take over the world. Of course, no one here said that they would. However, war causes instability which causes economic downturn, which means people lose money. Wars are expensive in more than one way in that respect. This means that corporations wouldn't want to start wars, not unless they like losing money.

Fun fact: Bill Gates and Warren Buffett have lost 43 billion USD in the last year. The two richest people in the whole world have lost more than the total equity of Microsoft in the last year. What's going on now is bad for business, corporations aren't doing it.

The corporations are just below the banker elites they are finally moving into the final stage of Illuminatis end goal, they want all the power in a few hands, rockstars are rich but just because people let them be. If you think Bill Gates is the richest man in the world your dumb.

 

[Tsuyu]

Re: Zeitgeist

We live in a democracy, they cant control us with force or we will rebel so they must control our minds. They work both sides the business side and fear mongering side putting all the conspiratists together. If ever there is a website with real information regarding how the world works it is attacked with viruses and its servers are taken out.

Then Zeitgeist must be false, right? Just as I said; the fact that it exist discredits it. Killing a couple of film-makers and removing any trace of them and their little film is a trivial task in comparison to staging the 9/11 attack.

 

[Firis]

Re: Zeitgeist

^Exactly the flaw with the conspiracy. As for John Doe: I never said religion is why I dismiss religion, I was breaking down the three points of the movie: Religion, 9/11, Corporations. I meant Zeitgeist is one of the bigger factors that lead me to "Convert" away from christianity. The others bieng it's own contradictions inside of the bible and the preachers.

 

[Firis]

Re: Zeitgeist

No, Zeitgeist was the first thing to make me question my faith due too the whole "Many gods share Jesus' attributes" thing and the zodiac. I grew and learned more about it, I made an intellectual desicion of my religious (Or lack there of) choice. I don't normaly watch conspiracy films, the only conspiracies I even take as plausible as the "9/11 inside job" and the "one world government" (As in corporations trying to own everything. Not as in Reptile Aliens or Jewish bankers.)

 

[Zarkes]

Re: Zeitgeist

Then Zeitgeist must be false, right? Just as I said; the fact that it exist discredits it. Killing a couple of film-makers and removing any trace of them and their little film is a trivial task in comparison to staging the 9/11 attack.

Lol I JUST SAID THIS IS A DEMOCRACY. Therefore killing the filmakers and burning their tapes wewd be communist or facist or w/e and people wewd get mad. So they make a website like youtube-you tubed- to get get everyone together. So they keep the crazies from converting others and also help them think they can change things sitting on a computer. theres the red side and the blue side but they both just use eachother to support themselves. Its all a show for you to believe you hold any power. Obama has a myspace for christs sake.

If nothing else, the government could have reinforced, reinstated, and enforced the fairness doctrine, such that people like Alex Jones will have to have had someone else on his show to represent the other side of his arguments. This is something I would not be in favor of - while I heavily dislike Alex Jones, the fairness doctrine is FCC regulation bullcrap.Dude, do you pay attention to any of our politics? Even people not from America keep up with our politics. Don't know why, perhaps it's interesting in comparison to their own setups I guess. Anyway - the current administration is shifting support to the Muslim states and is basically shafting Israel.For ****'s sake man, Jesus did exist. There was a Jesus of Nazareth, that's a matter of historical record - it's fact. The question is whether or not he was the son of God, exactly as Tyloric said.I don't particularly enjoy calling you an idiot, but goddammit man you're an idiot. First, the government doesn't have to control us with force, they control us with legislation, with regulations, to give us incentive to do things the way they want or get slammed with fines and taxes. Second, the government doesn't run the business side, that's the corporate end of things... in case you haven't noticed, the government doesn't know how to run a business. Third, fear mongering isn't limited to the government, media does it all the time, hell, even teachers do it all the time. Fourth, if the government was behind factual 9/11 truth sites being taken down with viruses, why are they still up? Unless you're suggesting that they aren't factual.Religion is religion, and it is strictly voluntary - any restriction bound to you by religion is placed by you in the first place. Corporations do not own the world, nothing owns the world. If corporations were to own the world, there wouldn't be any corporate taxes.You're aware that the Illuminati as told in the film are not as they were in history, right? Bill Gates is currently the wealthiest man in the world. Walton family is the wealthiest family. Rock stars are not wealthy, else they wouldn't be broke after a few years of inactivity.

On a personal note, I strongly advise you find a cliff and decide to do what's best for the gene pool.So being influenced by an exploitation film about a conspiracy is somehow intelligent?

Ok no historian in their right minds wewd say Jesus exsisted its a fact. There is far to much controversey the Islam religion believes in a whole other Jesus born in a completley different place. Its a maybe on Jesus but you cant honestly shove it down my thraot and tell me its fact. Im christian lol Im just arguing with you.

Alex Jones is another puppet on the stage. He is meant to just freak you out so much by all this crazy stuff that you give up your liberties willingly so they dont have to take them.

The government isnt supposed to control you at all its a government of the people for the people. The only reason my ancestors made one was so that the people could protect themselves from themselve and invaders.

I dare you to not be a stewpid ape and do a shred of investigating and research. All media is owned by the federal government. Id love for you to call me crazy for it because that is fact im afraid.

Over whole government was based on a system of checks and balances so that it could not become to strong. This is why corporations are able to take it over because they arent apart of that system.

 

[Firis]

Re: Zeitgeist

Wow... /thread? This has gone out of hand and whiel this is HIGHLY amusing, we dhould end this.

 

[Purple Nurple]

Re: Zeitgeist

Will someone that is intelligent (John Doe, perhaps) please explain to my juvenile mind that is quite confused right now, what is happening in our society? And please, none of the 'corporations own our mind, man' crap. Please, I just want to know whether the government is good or bad, what corporations have to do with any of this, and how the corporations can be linked to 9/11. That last one really ****s me. I for the life of me cannot understand why anyone would think the coporations staged 9/11. WTF somebodyhelpmyfragilemindthatisscaredaboutthegovernmentrightnow. Thank you