Bored, so I made this thread :Debate Thread:

[Sephiroxas]

Re: Bored, so I made this thread ebate Thread:

REP+ angel.

 

[Angel]

Re: Bored, so I made this thread ebate Thread:

Aw thanks! Nice to have some rep before the slaughter of my argument begins....

 

[Eclipse]

Re: Bored, so I made this thread ebate Thread:

Eh...why do I allow myself to get into these things??

Ok, well firstly I do not see how hiding behind the "law" disguises the fact that the death penalty is still murder. You can dress it up any way you want, but it is the taking of another's life. A basic violation of human rights - yes, they have violated that by murdering an innocent, but how does that make it ok for the law to commit the same crime? And please don't give me all that "eye for an eye" crap coz if you're gonna go down the biblical route, you really are picking the wrong person to try and argue your point with. If someone commits murder or another atrocity worthy of the death penalty, then there are other ways of making them pay. As has already been mentioned, solitary confinement is one of the most awful things a human being can experience because it affects their mind more than anything else - inmates on life sentences experience all kinds of serious mental disorders. We are made to interact and forcing someone to spend almost every moment of their lives away from other people is actually a huge punishment. Death releases people - so many people who have been taken to their death by electric chair or gas or lethal injection have shown little or no remorse for what they have done - death is their release and half the time they start going on about how they've converted to some religion and if that is the case then why let them go to paradise or wherever? And what if you get it wrong? What if the person you have just put to death is actually innocent? It does happen and I'll bet more frequently than we hear about.

And I'm guessing we are referring to the death penalty in America moreso than anywhere else, right? There are a growing number of states that are re-evaluating their stance on capital punishment and the growing concern over the problems with lethal injection is causing the number of death penalties issued to decline. And think of the cost to the taxpayers? In New Jersey alone, the cost between 1983 and 2005 was $253 million - could that money not have been better spent somehow? It is significantly cheaper to commit prisoners to life without parole.

The death penalty also has links with racism - Amnesty Internationals findings are as follows:

If it was the other way around, do you honestly think there would be as many convictions? And the death penalty is mainly given to men and not women - sexist as well as racist, eh?

Tired myself out now - will argue more later....

hell yea +rep power to the cons

 

[Angel]

Re: Bored, so I made this thread ebate Thread:

So, Master Debator (and yes, I do realise how that sounds) - do I need to argue some more or is it the pro's turn?

 

[Reaver]

Re: Bored, so I made this thread ebate Thread:

I know im a little late to jump in but oh well......
Well i've got to say i'm all for it. I live in New Zealand so the subject doesn't even come up here but i have opinions anyway.

Firstly Angel you say that it's murder to perform the death penalty and solatary is better, but isn't that a bit hipocritical (sp) because the way i see it solitary is akin to torture in that case, which in my opinion is much worse.
Also i dont see why you and I should have to pay to keep these animals alive with our tax dollars when there are much better things to spend it on.

 

[Fable_Fan005]

Re: Bored, so I made this thread ebate Thread:

So, Master Debator (and yes, I do realise how that sounds)

ROFLCOPTERSAURUSTOLOGIST[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]

 

[Reaver]

Re: Bored, so I made this thread ebate Thread:

If you say so

 

[FableFreak]

Re: Bored, so I made this thread ebate Thread:

Ok, if anyone on pro still cares feel free to state thy case...

 

[Angel]

Re: Bored, so I made this thread ebate Thread:

Also i dont see why you and I should have to pay to keep these animals alive with our tax dollars when there are much better things to spend it on.

That is actually a reason to abolish the death penalty because of how much more it costs the tax payer as opposed to life imprisonment, as I mentioned in my argument.

And you could say that all imprisonment is torture depending on how each individual copes with it, if you really wanna go down that road. I wouldn't cope with it half as well as some might - so am I being tortured by being imprisoned for breaking the law? It is torturous to be reminded daily of what you have done - and whether you put someone in solitary or not, they cannot escape their own thoughts, memories and demons. Solitary is just one way - why the hell should convicted killers, rapists and paedophiles be allowed the same rights and privileges as those who have not paid their bills on time or mugged someone? Why should they get TV and free time and whatever else criminals get pampered with these days? They had plenty of time to socialise on the outside and no one is so stupid that they don't know what could happen if they commit a crime. And if they are that stupid then they get real smart real quickly on the inside.

 

[Reaver]

Re: Bored, so I made this thread ebate Thread:

Isn't that more of a reason to kill them if they know what they were doing and still did it. And as you said they dont deserve the same rights, including life. If you have no respect for the life of others, why should you get to keep yours.

 

[Fable_Fan005]

Re: Bored, so I made this thread ebate Thread:

after this debate i have the next topic What you think the best form of govenment is.

 

[FableFreak]

Re: Bored, so I made this thread ebate Thread:

Talk to me about that topic Fable_Fan005, it was actually going to be my next topic after this one. Coincedance, I think not...


Anyone on pro want tot add anything?

Angel I disagree when you say they should spend life in prison because many murderers quite frankly don't give a rats ass that they killed anyone and will even sometimes kill their cellmate because they know they will never get out so why does it matter to them. That is why they should be put to death.

 

[Reaver]

Re: Bored, so I made this thread ebate Thread:

yeah go for it Fable_Fan005 or you fablefreak1.
If there is a risk of someone killing there cell mate then they usually put in solitary arn't they? (i want to say something about let the animals kill themselves but im not sure i agree with it)

 

[FableFreak]

Re: Bored, so I made this thread ebate Thread:

yeah go for it Fable_Fan005 or you fablefreak1.
If there is a risk of someone killing there cell mate then they usually put in solitary arn't they? (i want to say something about let the animals kill themselves but im not sure i agree with it)

They are usually put in solitary confinemant after they kill their cellmate...

 

[Angel]

Re: Bored, so I made this thread ebate Thread:

Angel I disagree when you say they should spend life in prison because many murderers quite frankly don't give a rats ass that they killed anyone and will even sometimes kill their cellmate because they know they will never get out so why does it matter to them. That is why they should be put to death.

Just out of interest, do you have anything solid to back that up or is it just opinion? And as yet no one has given me what I would consider a suitable debate for keeping the death penalty - it's all opinion which seems to be based on TV, not reality. Give me a reasonable argument in defence of the death penalty and I will gladly take it on board.

 

[Reaver]

Re: Bored, so I made this thread ebate Thread:

with all due respect all your agruments (as far as i can tell) are opinions aswell, and there will always be oposing opinions on the matter, no one knows whats going on in someones mind so we can only guess that if someone commits a crime that bad then somethings wrong with them.
Everyone knows about the death penalty, am i correct in assuming that? if so, they know that if they kill x people (or whatever) they will get this penalty but they do it anyway

 

[FableFreak]

Re: Bored, so I made this thread ebate Thread:

Just out of interest, do you have anything solid to back that up or is it just opinion? And as yet no one has given me what I would consider a suitable debate for keeping the death penalty - it's all opinion which seems to be based on TV, not reality. Give me a reasonable argument in defence of the death penalty and I will gladly take it on board.

Ok, how about this. If someone killed your closest relative or loved one in a gruesome, horrific, and painful way how would you feel? Would you want them to live their life and spare them mercy? Why shouldn't they have to go through the same thing your loved one had to endure, not to mention the fact that lethal injection is painless because it simply stops heart functions. Why should they sit in a prison cell without regret for their whole life knowing that they were kept alive and that even hough they have blood on their hands they simply don't care. That is something I want you to think about...












So there is no more f*cking confusion...































Evidence why we NEED the death penalty:

This is a true story, I'm not making this up

A woman was sentanced to life in prison for killing her 18 year old son for no reason, she had no reason, she just killed him in cold blood. She was NOT mentally insane and no history of drug use. She was sent to jail where she remained for 8 years. On the eight year she was put on parole for good behavior. After she leaves the prison she goes home and guess what she does? SHE KILLS HER HUSBAND FOR NO REASON!!! She was sent back to prison to serve the rest of her life sentance w/out the posibillity of perole, that is why we should not grant perole to murderers and why we need the death penalty.

 

[Sephiroxas]

Re: Bored, so I made this thread ebate Thread:

Ok, how about this. If someone killed your closest relative or loved one in a gruesome, horrific, and painful way how would you feel? Would you want them to live their life and spare them mercy? Why shouldn't they have to go through the same thing your loved one had to endure, not to mention the fact that lethal injection is painless because it simply stops heart functions. Why should they sit in a prison cell without regret for their whole life knowing that they were kept alive and that even hough they have blood on their hands they simply don't care. That is something I want you to think about...

Evidence why we NEED the death penalty:

in the immortal words of batman begins, that's vengence...not justice.
that whole eye for an eye thing..or tooth for a tooth.."it just leaves you with a bunch of blind toothless people"

 

[FableFreak]

Re: Bored, so I made this thread ebate Thread:

in the immortal words of batman begins, that's vengence...not justice.
that whole eye for an eye thing..or tooth for a tooth.."it just leaves you with a bunch of blind toothless people"

You only focused on the FIRST HALF OF MY POST!!!!

That was only a way for someone to think about how they would feel if their closest loved one or relative was killed.

Better yet, how about this?

If you were murdered in cold blood would you want to see your murderer live their life out while they cut yours short without remorse? I know I wouldn't, I would want to see their ass fried/shot/or dead in general. Trust me, go ahead and ask any person anywhere and I bet 90% of them would say they would want to see their murderer brought to justice (i.e. death penalty). I'm not focusing on "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" BS because I haven't mentioned once, you are acting like I say it over and over again or something

 

[Angel]

Re: Bored, so I made this thread ebate Thread:

Ok, how about this. If someone killed your closest relative or loved one in a gruesome, horrific, and painful way how would you feel? Would you want them to live their life and spare them mercy? Why shouldn't they have to go through the same thing your loved one had to endure, not to mention the fact that lethal injection is painless because it simply stops heart functions. Why should they sit in a prison cell without regret for their whole life knowing that they were kept alive and that even hough they have blood on their hands they simply don't care. That is something I want you to think about...

So there is no more f*cking confusion...

Evidence why we NEED the death penalty:

This is a true story, I'm not making this up

A woman was sentanced to life in prison for killing her 18 year old son for no reason, she had no reason, she just killed him in cold blood. She was NOT mentally insane and no history of drug use. She was sent to jail where she remained for 8 years. On the eight year she was put on parole for good behavior. After she leaves the prison she goes home and guess what she does? SHE KILLS HER HUSBAND FOR NO REASON!!! She was sent back to prison to serve the rest of her life sentance w/out the posibillity of perole, that is why we should not grant perole to murderers and why we need the death penalty.

Forgive me for asking, but how is that evidence? 'She killed two of her family and that is why we need the death penalty'. Just cause you don't know the reason and the courts couldn't get a reason out of her doesn't mean that there wasn't one. Sorry, but that is a poor argument.

As for lethal injection, it is not necessarily a painless thing - the following study comes from the NCADP:

"An examination of 49 autopsies found that in 43 cases, the concentration of anesthetic in the bloodstream was less than what is required to numb a surgical patient before making an incision. In 21 cases, the concentration wasn't sufficient to prevent a patient from responding to a verbal command."

Life imprisonment without parole reduces the opportunity to re-offend. The death penalty is a poor way to fix a problem that actually has increased and not declined - you're basically saying, "I don't know how to fix this problem so let's just kill them".
Another finding:

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The American Bar Association published guidelines for a good defense in a death penalty case: (a) attorneys with prior experience working a capital case, (b) 2 attorneys, 1 investigator, 1 mitigation specialist, and (c) fully funded to pay for travel, private eyes, evidence testing and other things needed to investigate the case. Yet no state meets these standards. And few states pay their state-appointed lawyers well enough to retain competent, effective lawyers.[/FONT](source: Justice Bureau)

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
People are being sent to Death Row due to the incompetence of their representatives, not necessarily due to any crimes they may or may not have committed. And the UN opposes the death penalty - so the US is in violation of the regulations of an organisation that it claims to uphold.

And with regards to what you said about how I'd feel if a relative or someone close was killed in a gruesome way, well I can answer that up to a point - a very close friend of mine with severe learning difficulties was taken to the woods by his best friend and stabbed in the face, neck, back and chest over 17 times because this friend wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone. My friend only just survived the attack and his attacker was not sent to prison or even a detention centre - goodness knows why, but I live in the UK and nothing about our judicial system surprises me anymore. I was distraught and angry but at no point did I think that his attacker should be killed for it. And my friend was of the same opinion - he actually felt sorry for his attacker because he figured something was wrong with him for him to act that way; he wanted him to get professional help. What exactly would giving the death penalty have achieved if, as the pros argue, they don't care that they've killed or caused great harm anyway? And to make it even more personal, I have been in a situation myself more than once whereby the possibility of me remaining alive by the end of it was kinda slim, but I never wished death on my attacker.
The ills of society can never be solved simply by killing those who we can't be bothered to punish properly. The death penalty has not been proven to be a successful deterrent against crime - those crimes have actually increased, so surely there needs to be a rethink in how we punish our criminals if the current punishments have little or no effect?

[/FONT]

if someone commits a crime that bad then somethings wrong with them.

Then I believe we have a duty as a society to find a way to help deal with their sickness, just like we would if they were physically ill.