Don't deny it

[hook coast god]

Don't deny it

alright, time to clear something up once and for all
recently i vented and blew up in a forum topic because the topic was just not right... now, i love fable... i NEVER play it, cuz ive beaten it so many times. its boring cuz there is nothing to do anymore, but PM is gonna make fable 2 into a game that you dont play not cuz you beat it 10 times in a row... but because it ****es you off... i am talking about that so called point in the game where a girl will be scared, take the scars, or let her keep them... its a good display of moral dicisions, yes, but at the same time... its tedious. in the real world, we face temptation all the time. but in a video game, we do not, wether we have the choice to do so or not, because right just before you even go to the character select screen, you have already made up your mind just how good or how bad this character is going to be... so realistically, there are no moral choices in this game, only tedious ones... looking grotesque when you are evil is a good thing... cuz that is the way it is meant to be... looking grotesque when you are good should never be a concern at all...
here is an example: in irl, you are a fire man. the building is burning, there are people inside, but there are no other fire men alive... you must make a choice... be horribly burned and disfigured for the rest of your life or save those people... you will be disfigured, yes, but at the end of the day, you know that you did the right thing, so it never bothers you as much!
now lets go into the game catagory. if something ****es you off, you try to avoid it, not endure it... and if you have to endure it, you want to get it over with as quickly as possible... but dicisions in games with lasting effects dont have that function... you cant turn off the game after making the choice, and just curse, vent, watch tv, and play again, because once you turn the game back on, you are still scared perminatly
and if this game is released for pc, you know what people will do? the first thing a modder is gonna do is either remove the scars from that choice... or remove the choice entirly... why? because this choice is freaking tedious. what did PM say about the number 1 law of robitcs? "must not annoy you?" well, you just broke that law, buddy.
and guess what? if there is just one tedious choice like that, there is prolly tons of them... so i guess the formula goes like this... evil = happy good = ****ed off. in the real world, crime does pay, but your gonna regret it eventualy... you do the good thing, it will eventualy back fire... but you will live and die knowing that you did the right thing... but in this game, you are not gonna have a warm feeling after doing the right thing, no, you are gonna get ****ed off!
and if anyone wants to disagree with me... go ahead... do it, i wont even say anything negative against you... but you better give a good example of why you disagree with me... because if you do not, it solves nothing...
all i will say to you, PM is this: if you mess this up.... i will not play it

on a positive note... this is my one and only complaint about this game, and i just now spoke my opionion, so there wont even be anymore negative threads by me... im not even going to make another post in this thread, because there is no point in beating a dead horse... i said it, i meant it, and nothing will change that... if i turn out to be wrong, then i will appologise, untill then, here i stand

and by the way, if anyone insults me, or disagrees with me, i will say nothing. because you cant throw a ball at a brick wall and not expect it to bounce back at you... if anyone here can actualy disprove what i have said, then i will back down with respect, and without a grudge

 

[Dentie]

Re: Don't deny it

Well that was a mouthfull and i will npot disagree with you

 

[Caboose]

Re: Don't deny it

Dude, calm down seriously PM gave the whole chick getting scarred thing as an Example of some of the choices you can make and seeing as we don't definitively know what is going to happen and whether there will be a choice like that in the game i say we should wait until it's out to judge how bad it is...

Maybe you can just walk away and nothing happens? maybe not but Honestly the only people who know are the Lionhead staff and until we find out i don't think you can get ****ed off by something you know nothing about.....

P.S i do understand that is your opinion and i'm not trying to Insult you but there are some gaps in your argument in my opinion

 

[moonfever]

Re: Don't deny it

OK, I guess everyone is entitled to their opinions.

 

[Tsuyu]

Re: Don't deny it

That's why you never ever get yourself stuck in the "I'ma gonna be fully good/evil!"-way of thinking when playing. As you say, where's the fun in playing if your path is decided as soon as you create your character?

 

[Caboose]

Re: Don't deny it

^ totally agree with you Tsuyu i like to play spontaneously too!!!!

 

[Tsuyu]

Re: Don't deny it

^ totally agree with you Tsuyu i like to play spontaneously too!!!!

Exactly. Even as my most evil and corrupted of Heroes, I saved Theresa because after all, she was his sister. Unexpected and adds a little twist of how such an evil person can still care for his little sister.

 

[Keaton]

Re: Don't deny it

^Anti-Heros FTW!

Being dark, evil and menacing is great, but nothings more fun that when a bad guy kicks another bad guys @$$

You're allowed that little glimmer of good that makes all the 'good guys' wonder about your true alignment ^__^

 

[Tsuyu]

Re: Don't deny it

Yeah, just take Darth Vader. Would he have made such a memorable character if he hadn't redeemed himself in the end, and the movie would've ended with a climatic battle between him and Luke?

Hardly.

 

[Ranger28]

Re: Don't deny it

I can see how that would **** you off.
PM has said that he wants players to really think about their actions. Choices like this one would definately make me think, would i sacrifice my looks so that one persons life is not ruined or would i sacrifice the girls looks so that my life is not ruined? i don't know, if i sacrificed myself and everyone hated me because of my appearance, i would take comfort in knowing that there is at least one person out there who is thankful for my sacrifice.

I wonder if the girl would despise you, or if she would still treat you with respect for saving her?

What would you do in that situation hook coast god?

And i think what PM is trying to do is make it so that you cannot decide to be completely good/evil from the very start, he is trying to confront the player and give them extremely hard decisions.

 

[Goretex]

Re: Don't deny it

Tsuyu hit the nail on the head. PM wants players to play this without the "I'm gonna be good/evil" mentality. You are just bitching because now you want a good hero without the sacrifice, which completely takes the depth in the morality system and throws it in the garbage. You've contradicted yourself so many times and thrown in so many useless and downright backwards thoughts that I'm not going to even bother picking it apart. All I'm going to say is PM put these choices of great sacrifice in the game for a reason, he wants players to throw away the 'good/evil' state of mine and just go through the game with whatever choices they make. PM designed a multiple tier system that not only records the player's choices, but also his/her behavior. There are not only extreme choices like this, but also subtle ones that we will not really notice that will form your hero. And I'm sure this will not be the only difficult choice we will have to make. What it comes down to is that you don't have to disfigure yourself. You don't have to make too many sacrifices. Most players won't and their characters will end up on whatever middle portion of the spectrum they end up, and be content with it. Those that do will end up good and be content with it. It's nothing tedious, it's either you or you don't and you live on with your decision. The only this that makes it tedious for you is that you want a good character without the sacrifice and that makes you upset. Simply put, if you don't like big, real moral choices like this in a video game, then Fable 2 is not for you.

 

[Caboose]

Re: Don't deny it

^ absouletly Goretex you said it perfectly, if you can't hack it Fable 2 isn't for you.. +rep

 

[moonfever]

Re: Don't deny it

^ absouletly Goretex you said it perfectly, if you can't hack it Fable 2 isn't for you.. +rep

Haha, yeah, that's pretty good. I don't care if we scar or not. I just want to play the game. ^_^ I've worn out TLC, and I'm going nuts, with all this waiting.
Just 12 more days, right?

 

[Dentie]

Re: Don't deny it

i think everybody is right but i wont disagree with him cuz it are his toughts

Oh and goretex + rep

 

[hook coast god]

Re: Don't deny it

very well. you have made your point, and it was a very good one. the fact that i agree with nothing you say, is irrelivant, because at the same time, you agree with nothing i say... so this is where i throw some argument and insult at you, and begin a never ending cycle of opinions being thrown around untill a moderator closes this thread. even after we throw our opinions around, read each others, and disagree with others... our own opinions will remain the same. the cold fact is that... i dont care what you think... it makes no difference to me one way or another, because you, likewise, do not care what i think. actualy, the purpose of this thread was to see if anyone else gave a damn, as i do... and since that theory has proven incorect, i will accept your words, accept this feature, and walk away

but yeah, whatever, im always going off topic and ranting. sorry about that, and sorry about this thread

 

[Goretex]

Re: Don't deny it

very well. you have made your point, and it was a very good one. the fact that i agree with nothing you say, is irrelivant, because at the same time, you agree with nothing i say... so this is where i throw some argument and insult at you, and begin a never ending cycle of opinions being thrown around untill a moderator closes this thread. even after we throw our opinions around, read each others, and disagree with others... our own opinions will remain the same. the cold fact is that... i dont care what you think... it makes no difference to me one way or another, because you, likewise, do not care what i think. actualy, the purpose of this thread was to see if anyone else gave a damn, as i do... and since that theory has proven incorect, i will accept your words, accept this feature, and walk away

but yeah, whatever, im always going off topic and ranting. sorry about that, and sorry about this thread

You have every right to not like something, and there's nothing wrong with the thread. I'm not disagreeing or trying to argue about how you feel about the choice. I just felt that your reasoning was wrong and I've stated my reasons why and that's that.

Lighten up, just because some of us don't agree with you, doesn't mean we don't like you. :thumbsup:

 

[Caboose]

Re: Don't deny it

Yeah i'm with Goretex on this one we don't mind if you argue your point of view we'll just give you our point of view back so you can compare we're not trying to prove you're wrong or anything

 

[Dopesick]

Re: Don't deny it

FIRST POST!

I'm having some trouble establishing just what exactly you have a problem with, seeing as your post is fairly chaotic, but I'll give it a shot anyway.

The main feature of Fable has always been (not just imo, but from what PM himself has said), the moral decisions you're going to face in the game. Like Goretex touched on, if you go into the game with a predetermined notion of, "my character will be" you're really not playing the game as intended. Futhermore, I chuckled a bit at the "being grotesque when evil = good, being grotesque when good = bad" logic. Honestly, the real heroes aren't always the burly, sword wielding, blue eyed wonders - And I think that's one of the things PM wants you as a player to feel, no?

Also, we're discussing the game in a purely good/evil context - Aren't there the additional scales that have to brought into the game as well? How do we know exactly how this all plays out? We don't, well not until we finally play the game ourselves. Maybe this choice takes place fairly early on, and you go from a state where people reject you for your appearance until eventually your good deeds make people look past something so unimportant. Just theories, but hey.

Personally I think this thread is good, seeing as PM has stated numerous times that he wants to player to feel something, to not just have the game be something thats white/black, and judging by the varying responses - He's succeeded already eh?

P.S No one's flinging insults around, at least not from what I can gather - Plus the fact that people are responding shows your opinion is valid and warrants discussion. Relax yo, .

 

[Twilight]

Re: Don't deny it

OK, I guess everyone is entitled to their opinions.

Even if they are quite retarded

 

[Dark Drakan]

Re: Don't deny it

Even if they are quite retarded

No need to be insulting.