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Reaver - Discuss

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I was just looking at the trope page for Fable. ^_^

I'm kinda amused an off hand comment turned this thread it a 'is Reaver evil or not?' epic.

Oh well. Sorry to the original poster for this getting out of hand.

Either way, still, I don't agree with killing him. Reaver is Reaver. It's like saying you want to kill Theresa for playing her hand for her own means. Maybe we don't agree with what they do or why they do it, but without that, we'd lose a whole portion of the game.
 
i still think we should have a choice on if we want him in our albion or not so improve the game import system and have it as a choice if you want to kill him or not and if you do then the world will have consqences around that action or if he is alive the worl continues to become a REAVERS world i just dont want him around
 
I'd love to have a fight with him. Maybe not to the death, but if he loses, he has to leave Albion.
 
Syth the old one said:
i still think we should have a choice on if we want him in our albion or not so improve the game import system and have it as a choice if you want to kill him or not and if you do then the world will have consqences around that action or if he is alive the worl continues to become a REAVERS world i just dont want him around
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Contrary to what Lionhead claims, this game isn't about making your own choices. Your choices matter in this game only and are completely forgotten by the next. Mass Effect is how you do it right.
 
I like Reaver a lot - in Fable 2 he was the only Hero with some personality worth noting for me. Having him in Fable 3 was great because I enjoy him as a character; my only complaint would be not getting to talk to him properly or anything like that. I'd like him to be a potentially pullable character - I'd love to have my hero married to Reaver :lol:
 
Slightly off topic, but does anyone else find themselves watching QI and half expecting Stephen Fry to pull out a pistol and shoot guests. And Alan.
 
yes yes i do just because they dont laugh at his jokes and then settting balvrines on the audance
 
Mastperf said:
Contrary to what Lionhead claims, this game isn't about making your own choices. Your choices matter in this game only and are completely forgotten by the next. Mass Effect is how you do it right.
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Never played Mass Effect, but I hear you on Fable. Even in game they don't make sense. I tried playing as a bad guy on my second playthrough, and I was rather underwhelmed by the hero's seeming schizophrenia. Behaves like a complete dick to the staff and people with the petition, but suddenly gets mad at his brother for shooting civilians... Heck, I wanted to do it myself. It's like the game tries to railroad you into being a good guy, otherwise some of the dialogue doesn't make sense.
 
Bluedrake said:
Never played Mass Effect, but I hear you on Fable. Even in game they don't make sense. I tried playing as a bad guy on my second playthrough, and I was rather underwhelmed by the hero's seeming schizophrenia. Behaves like a complete dick to the staff and people with the petition, but suddenly gets mad at his brother for shooting civilians... Heck, I wanted to do it myself. It's like the game tries to railroad you into being a good guy, otherwise some of the dialogue doesn't make sense.
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You should play Mass Effect. It's an incredible series with an awesome and consistent story. The dialogue system is much deeper than most games and is being copied by a lot of games now. Best of all your choices actually matter and shape the way the whole trilogy will unfold.
 
Aruu said:
The task being finding the one form of torture he doesn't get off to. Huh, I could get on board with a quest like that.. <3
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Haha I'm on board with that too

Aruu said:
Where did I say that everyone should agree with what I do? I just said it was my opinion, and that people getting worked up over it seems pointless because it's only what I'm think. My post got called ignorant, yeah, I'm gonna respond to that.

I have argued my point, but like I said, I'm dropping it because it's getting off topic, and it's not really what the thread should be about.

So anyone else think Reaver would have been nearly so popular if he wasn't voiced by Stephen Fry?

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I agree that some people get too worked up...sharing a differing opinion and calling someone else's opinion ignorant are two very different things

Aruu said:
Okay, okay, he's evil :lol:

I just don't think you're getting what I'm saying. Of all the pronouns to use, I wouldn't use evil personally. He does horrific, really nasty, cruel things, okay, we'll say evil things, but that exact word, that exact choice isn't what I would personally use.

I'm a writer, I'm probably more fussy about this than most. Hurting children? Is evil, oh yes. All that he does? Is really morally twisted. If I were writing a description of Reaver? I personally wouldn't use evil in favour of other words that are along those same lines.

Edit: Also, I did call Reaver amoral a few posts back. So me and Stephen Fry have at least one thing in common. Apart from, you know, the witty intelligence, incredible acting skills, the fact all he touches seems to turn to comedy gold.
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Haha I've seen you have to say the same thing so many times and hardly anyone does seem to get what you're saying. I'm a writer as well, and I don't think it's hard to understand at all...he may very well be evil, but for you it's just not the first word that comes to mind when describing him. Makes sense to me
 
I'm simply astounded that a person could conceivably reside in so amoral and decadent realms of the mind for decades upon decades...upon decades. It is an alien concept, as those who live in such a puerile and material sphere of consciousness seem to die young and 'burn out' as the expression goes, at least by normal standards. And of course there is the natural aging of the psyche to consider. It is almost as if Reaver is this complete anomaly that has never progressed into a fully-developed human being, never entirely reaching that stage Maslow's Hierarchy describes as, 'self-actualisation'. Which, personally, I find incredibly interesting as I have been an 'old man' for most of the years of my fairly young life. It is somewhat captivating to consider a character that is the opposite, youthful like myself, and yet several centuries older.

Theresa embodies what I would expect one who has endured for over half a millenia to express themselves as. She is patient and thoughtful, extremely knowledgeable and careful, not to mention she chooses her battles and her words. Will and navel-gazing aside, she is what I should think a 600+ year person to be like. Though, it must be said that there seems to be a dearth of centuries-old people to compare this assessment to in the real world *grins*. That said, it is readily seen that as we age - we learn and grow. The deterioration of the body, undoubtedly, has an effect on how we perceive the world and how we interact with it, which is something Reaver has not needed to really consider in any great detail...yet. So, the question on my mind is whether one could really, if the constraints of time held little import to them other than a yearly holiday to renew membership, live in such a lascivious manner for so long a time without reaching a stage where wisdom and time would render it...well, tiresome, colour-less, and trivial in comparison to life's greater mysteries.

Reaver is, what, 350 years old or thereabouts? I believe it was said in Fable II that the deal with the Shadow Court was 200 or 250 years prior. Fable III is 50-60 years later. Assuming Reaver was no older than thirty at the time of the Deal, as he was a young man, I should think he is between 280 and 340 years old, approximately.

As for being evil. Well, many have said more eloquently than I can that he is. I tend to agree for the greater part. His charisma and complete charm overshadow the dark, and completely desolate part of him where humanity should be - making him likeable in an odd way, and yet thoroughly wretched. I certainly wish to see him receive his comeuppance, though; I don't want to be the one to kill him, as Hannibal Lecter said, 'the world's more interesting with you in it'. Some evils need to exist, just as great forces of good need to be there to balance them.
 
Reaver=Awesome. Voiced by Stephen Fry 'nuff said.
 
The way I see it, living for hundreds of years might make anyone become selfish, indifferent to human suffering, crazy and uncaring etc. I mean after seeing countless of people die over and over again, how would any living person mean anything to him? On top of everything his whole tragic past with Oakvale probably just pushed him right over the edge.

I also don't really believe that Reaver is having that much fun with his little "parties". I personally think he's just downright tired and falling into further decadence has been the only way to make living somewhat bearable. Reaver has become so desensitized that the only way he can feel any sort of excitement is by destroying life. The reason why he keeps making his sacrifices is because dying is really a scary prospect for most people, especially for him because he has lived so long. Although he may be bored to death of life he is still afraid to let go and I pity him really....This is just my interpretation though! :)

Anyway I really want him to last the whole series, he breathes fresh air into it and I think fable would be much bleaker without him. That and I just love Stephen Fry lol.
 
Onecrazymonkey1 said:
The way I see it, living for hundreds of years might make anyone become selfish, indifferent to human suffering, crazy and uncaring etc. I mean after seeing countless of people die over and over again, how would any living person mean anything to him? On top of everything his whole tragic past with Oakvale probably just pushed him right over the edge.

I also don't really believe that Reaver is having that much fun with his little "parties". I personally think he's just downright tired and falling into further decadence has been the only way to make living somewhat bearable. Reaver has become so desensitized that the only way he can feel any sort of excitement is by destroying life. The reason why he keeps making his sacrifices is because dying is really a scary prospect for most people, especially for him because he has lived so long. Although he may be bored to death of life he is still afraid to let go and I pity him really....This is just my interpretation though! :)

Anyway I really want him to last the whole series, he breathes fresh air into it and I think fable would be much bleaker without him. That and I just love Stephen Fry lol.
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Well,there is in the room just before the treasury in the castle a note left by reaver about his abcence during the final battle (lord knows he would have been awesome in it) which hints about his deal with the shadow court and him "growing tired of it" as well.

this next bit is quite off topic so don't comment on it?

I hope this leads on to a reinvention of oakvale style DLC quest where you take the fight to the shadow court and hopefully force them out of albion for good, considering that they could hold a sort of alleigence to whoever controls the crawler seeing as they both control shadows? i wouldn't mind paying more than 800msp for it especially if there are kingly choices involved like instead of kicking them out maybe you could ask them for the deal that reaver made keeping you immortal as well negating ageing, alignment changes and scarring.
 
Reaver is without any doubt in my mind evil but I still can't help but find myself liking him. I was genuinely excited when i found out he would be in the 3rd game and he really does make some of the more dull moments in the game entertaining.

On the subject of whether or not it's moral to like him I'll put across this argument. Darth Vader and The Joker come to mind. They've both done many evil things but people still like them. Why? BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT REAL! Reaver is a fictional character who has killed other fictional characters. Not real people. It's okay to root for him and to like him because no matter what he does from enslaving an entire nation of people or forcing innocent little kidies into labor because they don't actually exist.
 
Noelle Alexandra said:
Haha I've seen you have to say the same thing so many times and hardly anyone does seem to get what you're saying. I'm a writer as well, and I don't think it's hard to understand at all...he may very well be evil, but for you it's just not the first word that comes to mind when describing him. Makes sense to me
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Thank you! I'm glad someone else understands what I was trying to get at. Evil is as evil does, all of that, but if someone asked me on the spot to describe Reaver? Evil wouldn't be the word that immediately comes to mind.

Onecrazymonkey1 said:
The way I see it, living for hundreds of years might make anyone become selfish, indifferent to human suffering, crazy and uncaring etc. I mean after seeing countless of people die over and over again, how would any living person mean anything to him? On top of everything his whole tragic past with Oakvale probably just pushed him right over the edge.
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This, so many times! Reaver's lived for ages by the point of Fable III, I mean according to the FableWiki, Oakvale was sacrificed for his ever lasting youth around 200 years before the start of Fable II. I'd put him anywhere from early to mid twenties if he really hasn't aged at all, so that makes him pushing 220 + come Fable II. Add another fifty years onto that for Fable III, and he's around 270. That's a long time to live, and given the average lifespan of Albion's citizens, he must have seen a lot of deaths. A fair load of those by his hand too, no doubt.

He does what he does because he has no genuine remorse, the guy probably doesn't even feel it anymore. If making children work gets him results, so be it, it keeps them off the streets. If shooting a rebelling worker stops the others from rebelling against him, then yeah, that works in his favour too. A death is nothing, when it could stop all of his workers walking out on him.




 
Ah, so you were driving at what the first thing to come into your mind would be if you were asked 'what is Reaver'? I'd have to reply 'fun', but for some reason a lot of people have really worked up a backlog of bile over this character.
 
i may like reaver and want him to live but he is really starting to get annoying i wouldnt kill him but maybe just shoot him or stab him once or just throw him in the dungeon i don't know
 
Just out of interest *spoilers ahead* when you manage to get to drift wood, there is the note saying something about not being welcome as this is Reaver's land. But... where is he?
 
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