So Same-sex marriage is now legal all across America.

[Romero]

Nowadays conservative people are invisible on the Internet. But we still exist.

 

[HobbeBrain]

Nowadays conservative people are invisible on the Internet. But we still exist.

You against same sex marriage, buddy?

I hope I'm not opening a can of worms by asking this - I'm sure everyone here is adult enough to be respectful of other people's views, even if they might not agree with them.

 

[queenofdisco]

Stop trying to force love & understanding on everyone hobbe, you goddamn hippie.

 

[Romero]

You against same sex marriage, buddy?

I hope I'm not opening a can of worms by asking this - I'm sure everyone here is adult enough to be respectful of other people's views, even if they might not agree with them.

I think society is changing too fast. When changes that should have taken a thousand more years happens in just a few years, I become very very upset. This is a taboo, so for the most part I try to ignore and look another way. I also don't want to offend others, but sometimes this "new" society needs to be reminded that there are other opinions.

Imagine growing up, and within some years after you've become adult learn that some important social values are invalid? My response to this is, what used to be right is still right, and what used to be wrong is still wrong.

The Church of Norway has succumbed to this wave of liberalism too. I plan to leave them and become Catholic.


Edit
You guys with liberal opinions don't scare me, and I hope I don't scare you.

 

[HobbeBrain]

When changes that should have taken a thousand more years happens in just a few years, I become very very upset.

I find this very interesting, are you saying that you think same-sex marriage should only come about after thousands more years? You are right, I suppose, in saying that the past 100 years or so have seen dramatic social change, what with the sexual revolution of the 60s, suffragettes securing women the vote, etc. And of course, Hitler made the far-right fairly unpopular, which I'm sure has a lot to do with why society veered into very liberal zones for the rest of the 20th century.

Is this the kind of thing you're talking about? Vast social change in a very short time. I'm not an absolute expert in all areas of history, but I'm quite sure that if you picked two years, let's say for arguments sake 1515 and 1615, you would see less social change between them than that which occurred between 1915 and 2015.

I for one am happy with the direction we're heading in as a society - though I can absolutely understand why some people may find some of the more radical aspects, such as the growing awareness of transgender issues, quite hard to swallow. I'm sure that for every person genuinely suffering from these problems, there's another who is just crying "oppression" for attention.

It's important to remember, though, that we can't assume our views are correct just because we're born into them. In Ancient Greece and Rome, they believed a prepubescent boy was the pinnacle of beauty, and it was common practice for fully adult men to start erotic relationships with boys of about 12, in fact this was more common then two adult men having a relationship. This seems wrong to us now, but at the time, no one would have batted an eyelid, because they were born into this value system.

 

[Romero]

I didn't have the social changes before my time in mind, that was my ancestor's and grandparent's problem. "My time" are the '80s and onward, and my values were formed in the '80s and '90s. I don't change at the same pace as the society does, I have my own opinions and they are as good as anyone else's. This is not math and everyone are entitled to claim that their answer is the right answer.

Where I'm from, no one talked about different forms of sexuality, and still today it's not being talked about. Perhaps it's bad, but that's how it is.

And of course, Hitler made the far-right fairly unpopular

Yes he surely did. National Socialism (Nazism) is often said to be right-wing, but it's somewhat misunderstood. Nazism contains an element of socialism, hence the name. It was both anti-communism and anti-capitalism.

 

[HobbeBrain]

This is not math and everyone are entitled to claim that their answer is the right answer.

You're correct, and a large part of me completely agrees, but there's a small part of me that wonders, wouldn't it be better if there was a universal standard for morality? Moral relativism/nihilism is probably, annoyingly, true, but there must be convincing arguments for morality also being something that exists external to various people's interpretation of it. Personally, I don't think it does, but I'd like it to.[/QUOTE]

Nazism contains an element of socialism, hence the name. It was both anti-communism and anti-capitalism.

I thought that the idea that Nazism contained Socialism was a common mistake, like, it doesn't contain Socialism, it contains National Socialism, which is a different thing entirely, like the difference between an elephant and an elephant seal (to quote the Cabin In The Woods). Though you might be right, I know this from studying history, not politics.

 

[Romero]

It's sad that the server crashed, Gikoku posted some good stuff and I made a not-so-bad reply. It's lost.

You're correct, and a large part of me completely agrees, but there's a small part of me that wonders, wouldn't it be better if there was a universal standard for morality?

But who can decide what a universal standard is? Perhaps the majority could agree on something, but a big minority would reject the standard and substitute their own standards. And everyone who disagreed with the standard would be free to do so without doing anything wrong. People are too different to agree on morality. It's almost like agreeing on religion, that too is impossible. The best we can achieve is to respect people with different ideas.

I thought that the idea that Nazism contained Socialism was a common mistake, like, it doesn't contain Socialism, it contains National Socialism, which is a different thing entirely, like the difference between an elephant and an elephant seal (to quote the Cabin In The Woods). Though you might be right, I know this from studying history, not politics.

A left-right scale is only one dimension, some political ideologies are difficult to place if you only use "left" and "right". Some parties (like the party that won the Polish election recently) are leaning towards right on some issues and toward left on other issues.

A two-dimensional scale or map is better, there you don't have just the horizontal line, but also a vertical line. I'm not sure where Nazism would be positioned on a scale with more dimensions.

As for neo-Nazism, it is possible that they are true right-wing, their ideology may differ from the original Nazism. But those assholes are too ignorant to care, and don't know the near history.





One of my points in the lost post was that I we need both liberals and conservatives. Without progressive liberals we would get nowhere, and who knows where we would end up if we had no conservatives to make a balance.

 

[Gikoku]

I agree with Romero, I can't see there ever being a universal standard for morality. There's a lot of people that follow a collective hive-mind, but there's also a significant amount that choose to believe what they want to believe (for a multitude of reasons). That's the power of freewill after all and because of such I just can't fathom it being possible. There's always going to be someone that thinks pedophilia is natural, or being gay is gross, or that an eye-for-an-eye should always be the way. I hope I can live long enough to witness global respect to everyone's differences. But for now, we still live in a world where someone will shoot you in the face just for disagreeing with them.

Spot-on with the liberals vs conservatives argument, basic yin & yang. As nice a thought it would be living in some perfect liberal left-wing world, you keep going one way long enough and you'll develop tunnel vision. The world needs balance to help keep itself in check.

It's sad that the server crashed, Gikoku posted some good stuff and I made a not-so-bad reply. It's lost.

I kinda forgot everything I said, so I'll pass on trying to replicate it lol. Thank you, though I wish I could've seen all the subsequent posts as I don't doubt they were well done.