The Dark Side of the gaming industry

[Dark Drakan]

I've have read a lot of articles and seen a lot of videos today that have just made me want to bash my head against a wall. Whether it's questionable business practices from developers or the latest idea to get more cash from gamers I'm going to be sharing articles here frequently that show some of these developers and ideas that I believe arent in gamers best interests and invite others to so also so we can talk about them.

Will start with this that I saw on the Jimquisition about a company called Digital Homicide flooding Steam Greenlight with awful half arsed games & trading under multiple names to make a quick buck from games.

Along with that at the end of the video, in the latest Konami news they are now charging gamers to insure their bases in Metal Gear Online so any assets stolen by players can be replaced at a cost.

Metal Gear Online Launches; Konami Selling Insurance For Your Base​

Was also revealed that the highly anticipated new Battlefront title will have a $50 season pass. So straight out the gate if you want access to all planned content it will cost you $110.

Will use Boogies Francis character to explain better in the video below...

EA Goes Full Dark Side With $50 'Star Wars: Battlefront' Season Pass​

 

[Dark Drakan]

Square Enix's Latest Streaming Restrictions Are Ridiculous

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[Krskull]

I think that we the gamers deserve these S**** games. Because we as humans are suspicious and jealous creatures. When we see something, we wanna find a flaw in it. There are a lot of videos out there in youtube where people hunt every single little bug, glitch or mistake and use it as an excuse to grab their pitchforks and torchs and start an angry mob.

 

[Dark Drakan]

I think that we the gamers deserve these S**** games. Because we as humans are suspicious and jealous creatures. When we see something, we wanna find a flaw in it. There are a lot of videos out there in youtube where people hunt every single little bug, glitch or mistake and use it as an excuse to grab their pitchforks and torchs and start an angry mob.

Nobody starts an angry mob over glitches that someone has spent hours trying to search out, there has been and always will be glitches in games. However if a glitch is game breaking it needs to be brought to the developers attention so that they can patch it and 'fix' a broken aspect of their game. You get some 'gamers' that like to spread hate and encourage others to hate on things, I personally speak to developers quite often and promote the games I love that I want others to play but gamers dont deserve to be ripped off based on actions by a hateful few and the companies that openly rip off gamers deserve the bad press they get. Companies like CD Projekt Red and Bethesda should be rewarded with praise and sales for listening to fans and being genuine with their content and those that constantly try to squeeze cash out of gamers with minimal effort need to be recognized and avoided.

It shouldnt be rare for games to have expansions worthy of spending cash on, it shouldnt be rare to recieve free content and patches that add new features. Just the same as microtransactions in full price games and day one DLC shouldnt be seen as the 'norm' and expected. I get that games development is a business but there are far better ways to make cash out of gamers and receive none of the negative press than simply milking us for cash at any opportunity. Give us decent content and honesty and we will buy your products, CD Projekt Red have hit nail on the head in this regard with The Witcher III & are reaping the rewards and rightfully so.

 

[Precipice]

Read about that Digital Homicide thing. I always found it funny that when people are doing things that are morally, ethically and legally reprehensible, they will defend their actions with the straightest faces you'll ever see even after the entire world knows that they're lying, cheating thieving sacks of ****. Who did they expect to convince? The scantily clad woman holding a football was a nice touch on their bundle site thing. Gives off the genuine stink of a couple slacker bro frat dudes.

Also checked out Konami's insurance stuff. I'm deadly serious that Konami's cashing out, squeezing every last penny out of the customer base before the boss shuts it down and jumps out of the penthouse floor with his golden parachute. It's a business model that you'd expect to see in dirty companies looking to rip people off, you know, the criminal kind. Except this is legal.

Just the same as microtransactions in full price games and day one DLC shouldnt be seen as the 'norm' and expected.

Agreed 100%. Sadly that **** is rampant. I was going to say something like producers/publishers/designers/developers (it is a collaborative effort) should be meeting customers halfway somewhere in this, except I don't know what would be in the customer's half. We bought the games, we did our part already.

They have a right to make money and I'll be one of the first to jump in line to defend that, but not if it costs me an arm and a leg to play the whole game because they decided to break it down into pieces for individual sale. In my mind, that's just theft. That's why I get so thrilled when I see proper DLC that has a fair or even decently fair pricetag on it. It just doesn't happen often anymore.

 

[Krskull]

@Dark Drakan @Precipice

But sometimes Videogame companies don't have a choice. because they answer to a bigger company. A good example is Fable 2. Lionhead wanted to release it on PC. But Microsoft put their foot down to make Fable 2 exclusive to Xbox.

 

[Dark Drakan]

Read about that Digital Homicide thing. I always found it funny that when people are doing things that are morally, ethically and legally reprehensible, they will defend their actions with the straightest faces you'll ever see even after the entire world knows that they're lying, cheating thieving sacks of ****. Who did they expect to convince? The scantily clad woman holding a football was a nice touch on their bundle site thing. Gives off the genuine stink of a couple slacker bro frat dudes.

They seem to embody everything that is wrong in the industry all in one package and the fact they are blatantly ripping off gamers and changing their company name to avoid the negative backlash is a vile business practice. They are simply ripping off people by churning out shovelware and games with the least amount of effort and flooding the market with games to recoup cash. That bundle site image just about summed up what they think of gamers...

ami's insurance stuff. I'm deadly serious that Konami's cashing out, squeezing every last penny out of the customer base before the boss shuts it down and jumps out of the penthouse floor with his golden parachute. It's a business model that you'd expect to see in dirty companies looking to rip people off, you know, the criminal kind. Except this is legal.

I think that assessment is probably spot on, just the same reason as they are trying to milk the mobile market currently and pumping out pachinko machines to rake in the cash in Japan.

Agreed 100%. Sadly that **** is rampant. I was going to say something like producers/publishers/designers/developers (it is a collaborative effort) should be meeting customers halfway somewhere in this, except I don't know what would be in the customer's half. We bought the games, we did our part already.

They have a right to make money and I'll be one of the first to jump in line to defend that, but not if it costs me an arm and a leg to play the whole game because they decided to break it down into pieces for individual sale. In my mind, that's just theft. That's why I get so thrilled when I see proper DLC that has a fair or even decently fair pricetag on it. It just doesn't happen often anymore.

Games are expensive enough but if a developer releases some decent content I will happily pay for it if I think its worth the money. I shall definitely purchase both DLC's for The Witcher III and they can have my cash with a smile on my face as I will happily part with my money as they deserve it. Same goes for the Skyrim DLC's I purchased, I have now also purchased the game twice (360 and PC) and also purchased the Ultimate Bundle as I believed they deserved my cash too.

However I wont be paying for any microtransactions in any titles any time soon and I wont be buying any season passes any time soon unless I know what im getting for my money beforehand.

@Dark Drakan @Precipice

But sometimes Videogame companies don't have a choice. because they answer to a bigger company. A good example is Fable 2. Lionhead wanted to release it on PC. But Microsoft put their foot down to make Fable 2 exclusive to Xbox.

Sometimes companies dont have a 'choice' as such from a business standpoint and lots of companies adopted this approach back then due to piracy being rampant on PC and them not wanting to lose money on a PC port. I personally would never vilify a company for making a business decision like that as they are doing it in their eyes for the best interests of their brand and company. They arent purposely ripping off gamers to make a quick buck. Plus Microsoft had a console to promote and they didnt actually take anything away from the PC gamers as such they simply tried to promote their other platform with exclusives as a reward for buying that console. It wasnt done to spite anyone or for any malicious reasons to screw over customers & is disappointing to those who dont own the other platform but thats business. Unless you own every platform there is always a game you wont be able to play somewhere down the line. I mean Rockstar didnt release Red Dead for PC either...

 

[Krskull]

Sometimes companies dont have a 'choice' as such from a business standpoint and lots of companies adopted this approach back then due to piracy being rampant on PC and them not wanting to lose money on a PC port. I personally would never vilify a company for making a business decision like that as they are doing it in their eyes for the best interests of their brand and company. Plus Microsoft had a console to promote and they didnt actually take anything away from the PC gamers as such they simply tried to promote their other platform with exclusives as a reward for buying that console. It wasnt done to spite anyone or for any malicious reasons to screw over customers & is disappointing to those who dont own the other platform but thats business. Unless you own every platform there is always a game you wont be able to play somewhere down the line. I mean Rockstar didnt release Red Dead for PC either...

Well videogame companies can sell games on PC without fearing pirates. They could use a copy protection mechanisms. Like what Eidos did with the Batman games. by doing so they will hit two birds with one stone.

Well not everyone has a treasury like this.



and besides there are more important things that i have to pay for than buying a console to play one game. Like paying the rent and electric bill so i can have a place that has power. which will allow me to turn the consule on and play a game.

 

[Dark Drakan]

Well videogame companies can sell games on PC without fearing pirates. They could use a copy protection mechanisms. Like what Eidos did with the Batman games. by doing so they will hit two birds with one stone.

Well not everyone has a treasury like this.

and besides there are more important things that i have to pay for than buying a console to play one game. Like paying the rent and electric bill so i can have a place that has power. which will allow me to turn the consule on and play a game.

Gamers HATE DRM and do they should as most copy protection and DRM simply doesnt work and pirates find ways around it and it ends up punishing the legal consumers more. Lost track of the amount of times I have had to jump through hoops to play games I have purchased legally and had to verify my accounts, giving me limited installs, tying the install to my hardware and have online checks and such when pirate copies have had none of these included as they have found ways to disable them. You should be giving players a reason to WANT to purchase your game, not assume that all your customers are pirates and punish EVERYONE by having intrusive DRM and copy protection on the discs that hinder even people who purchase your title. If a developer is trusted enough people wont mind spending cash on their products but soon as you start working in the best interests of your shareholders and not your fans you are going to lose the faith of your customers (currently known as the Ubisoft effect).

Spore: Most Pirated Game Ever Thanks to DRM​

I think all games should be available for everyone but in reality this just wouldnt work, as consoles have to have exclusives so people have a reason to purchase one over another. Like you said we have better things to spend our cash on than consoles etc. I have a mortgage/bills and a step son and another child on the way for example. In an ideal world I would own all consoles and my PC so I have access to every title im interested in, fact is that currently I can only afford two console platforms (360 & XB1) and my PC. However in the future I will purchase a PS4 when I have less other outgoings so I do have access to all the exclusives im interested in on every platform I want.

 

[Precipice]

@Krskull
And that's why I said producers, publishers, designers and developers. Designers and developers make the game, and in the case of Fable 3, just turned some of the game off so that it can be purchased as day 1 dlc. Producers want a return on their investment, which is fair, but a handful of unscrupulous bastards do so by means that in other industries would eventually involve a grand jury. Publishers also have agendas, in the case of practically every Fable game Microsoft wanted to push its platforms. Even that is tolerable to an extent. I don't like that Fable 2 was exclusive, but it's a business call and as far as short term business maneuvers go, it was a successful move: they outsold the original Fable and promoted the 360, all they had to do was throw the admittedly small PC audience under a bus. Mixed feelings, sure.

I get that business is business. I understand it. I don't always like it, but no one's going to make really great games if no one can make money to do so.

Edit: Left out my punchline here.
There is a choice. There's a dial, it goes from 1-10, and the choice is how far to turn this dial. 3 is making a profit, 7 is ripping people off, 11 is business as usual at Konami and 1000000 is Digital Homicide. I agree that gamers can't complain over every little thing, but there is a point when complaints are legitimate.



I hate talking about piracy. I dislike both sides of the conversation because it's so, so very circular. I'm just going to drop a link to a pretty good article on the matter. http://draginol.joeuser.com/article/303512/Piracy_PC_Gaming

 

[Krskull]

Gamers HATE DRM and do they should as most copy protection and DRM simply doesnt work and pirates find ways around it and it ends up punishing the legal consumers more. Lost track of the amount of times I have had to jump through hoops to play games I have purchased legally and had to verify my accounts, giving me limited installs, tying the install to my hardware and have online checks and such when pirate copies have had none of these included as they have found ways to disable them. You should be giving players a reason to WANT to purchase your game, not assume that all your customers are pirates and punish everyone by having intrusive DRM and copy protection on the discs.

I think all games should be available for everyone but in reality this just wouldnt work, as consoles have to have exclusives so people have a reason to purchase one over another. Like you said we have better things to spend our cash on than consoles etc. I have a mortgage/bills and a step son and another child on the way for example. In an ideal world I would own all consoles and my PC so I have access to every title im interested in, fact is that currently I can only afford two console platforms (360 & XB1) and my PC. However in the future I will purchase a PS4 when I have less other outgoings so I do have access to all the exclusives im interested in on every platform I want.

Well that is a problem. both gamers and companies are greedy. Gamers want the best in everything. but don't want to pay a lot of money and don't want to wait really long time for the game to be released. and companies want to have more money but they don't get a lot of time. i mean in the past companies take a few years to make a sequal to a game. but these day most companies announce that they are working on the sequal immidiatly after releasing a game. which is something Jim talked about in that video and i do agree with it.

@Krskull
And that's why I said producers, publishers, designers and developers. Designers and developers make the game, and in the case of Fable 3, just turned some of the game off so that it can be purchased as day 1 dlc. Producers want a return on their investment, which is fair, but a handful of unscrupulous bastards do so by means that in other industries would eventually involve a grand jury. Publishers also have agendas, in the case of practically every Fable game Microsoft wanted to push its platforms. Even that is tolerable to an extent. I don't like that Fable 2 was exclusive, but it's a business call and as far as short term business maneuvers go, it was a successful move: they outsold the original Fable and promoted the 360, all they had to do was throw the admittedly small PC audience under a bus. Mixed feelings, sure.

I get that business is business. I understand it. I don't always like it, but no one's going to make really great games if no one can make money to do so.



I hate talking about piracy. I dislike both sides of the conversation because it's so, so very circular. I'm just going to drop a link to a pretty good article on the matter. http://draginol.joeuser.com/article/303512/Piracy_PC_Gaming

I totally understand what you are saying. but here the thing that we are forgetting when it comes to PC and console. Consoles aren't built to be upgradeable. but PCs on the other hand are built for that.

 

[Dark Drakan]

Well that is a problem. both gamers and companies are greedy. Gamers want the best in everything. but don't want to pay a lot of money and don't want to wait really long time for the game to be released. and companies want to have more money but they don't get a lot of time. i mean in the past companies take a few years to make a sequal to a game. but these day most companies announce that they are working on the sequal immidiatly after releasing a game. which is something Jim talked about in that video and i do agree with it.

I totally understand what you are saying. but here the thing that we are forgetting when it comes to PC and console. Consoles aren't built to be upgradeable. but PCs on the other hand are built for that.

SOME entitled gamers want it all for nothing and right away, most who know how the industry works however are happy to spend their cash on content that deserves to be purchased and are happy to wait for games to be finished. I mean I have been waiting for some sequels for many years and how many times have people said lately that some games should have been delayed so they werent so buggy? Case and point being Batman Arkham Knight on PC which was a mess that needed to be delayed but was pushed out for sales and it backfired massively. Its frustrating waiting so long for games but that anticipation is what I enjoy, I want to know that a game will be worth the wait and if it is then they can have my money and more on future substantial DLC too.

Seems to me lately that the companies have seen ways to make a quick easy bit of cash out of gamers and they are exploiting those means by holding back content and selling it to us later. We are getting parts of games these days for full price and being sold the remainder of the games by means of DLC and micro-transactions. DLC should add to a game not complete it...

 

[Krskull]

SOME entitled gamers want it all for nothing and right away, most who know how the industry works however are happy to spend their cash on content that deserves to be purchased and are happy to wait for games to be finished. I mean I have been waiting for some sequels for many years and how many times have people said lately that some games should have been delayed so they werent so buggy? Case and point being Batman Arkham Knight on PC which was a mess that needed to be delayed but was pushed out for sales and it backfired massively. Its frustrating waiting so long for games but that anticipation is what I enjoy, I want to know that a game will be worth the wait and if it is then they can have my money and more on future substantial DLC.

I totally agree. I've been waiting for a really long time for a new Dino Crisis and i don't think that they will release one. but some companies rush a game or stop working on one so they can work and release another game. and other they take a Duke Nukem Forever to release a game. and when it get released its not even worth the time and money.

 

[Dark Drakan]

I totally agree. I've been waiting for a really long time for a new Dino Crisis and i don't think that they will release one. but some companies rush a game or stop working on one so they can work and release another game. and other they take a Duke Nukem Forever to release a game. and when it get released its not even worth the time and money.

The Duke Nukem development team had a nightmare of behind the scenes goings on and lazy development schedule and same mistake was repeated with Alien Colonial Marines and both games rightfully got slated right out the gates. I think if enough fans want to see a game series return and make it known that they would buy it should it return then nothing is impossible. I mean I didnt think I would see the day that Shenmue III was coming and although in the manner in which it has returned didnt please me greatly I am happy to see it is FINALLY coming.

I mean things like Early Access & Kickstarter are great ideas that give gamers the power of influence that they wanted throughout a games development before it even officially releases. However some developers have abused this system to make a quick buck and lost the trust of some customers and thrown the whole system into question. Same goes for Steam Greenlight and a company that has already been mentioned in this thread, Digital Homicide. These are 'developers' if you can call them that taking what could be a great idea and abusing it for their own ends.

 

[Krskull]

The Duke Nukem development team had a nightmare of behind the scenes goings on and lazy development schedule and same mistake was repeated with Alien Colonial Marines and both games rightfully got slated right out the gates. I think if enough fans want to see a game series return and make it known that they would buy it should it return then nothing is impossible. I mean I didnt think I would see the day that Shenmue III was coming and although in the manner in which it has returned didnt please me greatly I am happy to see it is FINALLY coming.

I mean things like Early Access & Kickstarter are great ideas that give gamers the power of influence that they wanted throughout a games development before it even officially releases. However some developers have abused this system to make a quick buck and lost the trust of some customers and thrown the whole system into question. Same goes for Steam Greenlight and a company that has already been mentioned in this thread, Digital Homicide. These are 'developers' if you can call them that taking what could be a great idea and abusing it for their own ends.

That is true. but the problem is that sometimes The fans want answers and want the next game to top the previuos one and the developers comply and work on something. and they reach a point where they can't do anything because they have reached the limitations of the technology they have. and also some gamers are really hard to satisfy because they want something new and creative and at the same time want the game to be the same without any changes.

 

[Dark Drakan]

PayDay 2 goes Microtransaction mad after saying they would never include them.

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[Gikoku]

Here's one for ya, when a developer takes things too personally and resorts to immature and underhanded tactics because they can't handle any form of criticism. Case in point the developers of the game Planetbase:

@Dark Drakan @Precipice

But sometimes Videogame companies don't have a choice. because they answer to a bigger company. A good example is Fable 2. Lionhead wanted to release it on PC. But Microsoft put their foot down to make Fable 2 exclusive to Xbox.

Gotta echo with this one. There's been so many times when a developer is wrongfully accused instead of the publisher for the shoddy state of a game or the draconian DRM & rampant pay-content. EA is easily the biggest culprit in this in where they will try to use a developer as a human shield for their own mistakes such as DICE & Maxis. Maxis was thrown under the bus for Simcity 2013 and acted as if it was all their fault and EA was not to blame for the always-online DRM. DICE took the brunt of Battlefield 3's broken state backlash just because EA wanted the game out early to contend with COD.

Bethesda Softworks aren't saints either, I'm sure we all remember the infamous Fallout: New Vegas metacritic scandal. In which Bethesda denied Obsidian their promised bonus pay all because New Vegas came short by ONE single point in the metacritic score. Hey never mind the game being a bigger financial success than FO3 and aging better amongst fans. On top of that, Bethesda also cut Obsidian's development time short because NV was cutting it too close to Skyrim's release, resulting in a very buggy and unfinished game. Bad taste in everyone's mouth, but they're both on good terms again now.

Well videogame companies can sell games on PC without fearing pirates. They could use a copy protection mechanisms. Like what Eidos did with the Batman games. by doing so they will hit two birds with one stone.

Have to agree with Andy on this one. GOG.com is a DRM-free store by CD Projekt RED, thousands of games to buy with no strings attached. The games do get pirated from their store, but the numbers are so small that it isn't a threat compared to the games that have DRM. The Witcher 3 was one of them and CDPR wasn't bothered by it because they realized the best way to fight piracy, is to not fight it at all. It resulted in Witcher 3 being barely pirated, with many of the people instead respecting CDPR enough to just pay for the game (feeling the devs deserved it).

When you shove various copy protections into your game it just ends up hurting the honest buyer far more than the pirates themselves, it's never proven to be worth it in the end.

I totally agree. I've been waiting for a really long time for a new Dino Crisis and i don't think that they will release one. but some companies rush a game or stop working on one so they can work and release another game. and other they take a Duke Nukem Forever to release a game. and when it get released its not even worth the time and money.

I bet money they will, problem is it won't be what we asked for sadly. Capcom recently stated that they plan to go headlong into the HD Remaster business, starting with Resident Evil series. Then working down the line, better to expect Dino Crisis HD Collection instead.. which isn't awful, but yeah.. much prefer an original game.

 

[Dark Drakan]

More details about the PayDay 2 controversy...

How a game studio totally bungled a controversy & lost all good will
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[Gikoku]

I have to wonder what this industry would be like today if games were cheaper, the $60 price tag has always bothered me (most especially for digital releases). Steam sales have shown just how much we love cheap and affordable goodies and will flock to the products in droves. Companies complain about lack of sales but never bother to look at the price tags.

I like to think that perhaps if games were cheaper it would result in greater sales, which would in turn prevent companies from having to resort to crummy business tactics such as microtransactions, pre-order gimmicks, etc. just so they can turn a profit. On the other hand, they still have to get past the hurdle of budget bloating their projects (...looking at you Square-Enix) which only makes it even harder.

This new craze with exorbitant game bundles and special editions is absolutely jarring.

 

[Dark Drakan]

I have to wonder what this industry would be like today if games were cheaper, the $60 price tag has always bothered me (most especially for digital releases). Steam sales have shown just how much we love cheap and affordable goodies and will flock to the products in droves. Companies complain about lack of sales but never bother to look at the price tags.

I like to think that perhaps if games were cheaper it would result in greater sales, which would in turn prevent companies from having to resort to crummy business tactics such as microtransactions, pre-order gimmicks, etc. just so they can turn a profit. On the other hand, they still have to get past the hurdle of budget bloating their projects (...looking at you Square-Enix) which only makes it even harder.

This new craze with exorbitant game bundles and special editions is absolutely jarring.

I would happily pay closer to that $60 average if thats what they were the equivalent of here, however most titles are more like $69-$77 and special editions can go for as much as $150 (then there being multiple packages and options too). Digital prices are crazy most of the time, Shadow of Mordor for example when that released was equivalent of $92 here I ended up getting retail version for $49 in the end.

There has been a huge drop in the amount of sales for varying titles these days I have noticed with more people opting for the safe bet titles they purchase every year and franchises they know (Assassins Creed/Fifa/CoD). I mention some titles to friends (titles that have sold quite well worldwide) and some have never even heard of them, almost afraid to try something new for fear of feeling like they have wasted the £45-£50 on taking that chance.