Theresa is kinda evil, no? *SPOILER*

[Arld]

Re: Theresa is kinda evil, no? *SPOILER*

HOW DO u get 300 posts if u post like that <_< +rep

...If I post like that? I'm not looking at my post count, fortunately, as I like to discuss possible theories. ^_^

 

[Zarkes]

Re: Theresa is kinda evil, no? *SPOILER*

^me 2 they ar so interesting, that wewd be awesome because in fable 1 wether you were evil or gewd you fought evil and in fable 2 Lucien was seen as evil, so fable 3 wether your gewd or bad, youd fight theresa who is for all purposes gewd. Like say magic is curropting peopleso she wants to get rid of it and you have to kill her even though shes trying to do something gewd i dont want the story to be that just a quick example.

 

[FiliusMartis]

Re: Theresa is kinda evil, no? *SPOILER*

Don't forget Lucien's much stronger than your character, considering you used the magic box to drain his powers.

That's honestly not exactly what it looked like to me. Lucien was doing the same thing you had already done, trying to pull powers from the three heroes; when you used the box you took back what was rightfully yours and stopped him from doing so.

She needed Lucien to send a henchman to kill the Abbot. If the abbot wouldn't have been killed, Hammer wouldn't have had a reason to fight.

Correct; we're in agreement. But that still doesn't require the ritual going forth, which was my original point.

The Guild Cave is nowhere near Wraithmarsh/Bloodstone at all.

I never said it was. I simply stated that Bloodstone is not surrounded by Wraithmarsh. Theresa herself says it is surrounded by Wraithmarsh on three sides and ocean on the fourth. I used her presence in the Guild Cave to set the precedent that her visions/powers extend over bodies of water. If Bloodstone is not completely surrounded by Wraithmarsh, then she should be able to see it. Afterall she can speak to you and hear things clearly once you are in Bloodstone.

I also want to throw out there that I don't think Lucien was completely evil. He was just insane... completely and totally insane.

 

[Arld]

Re: Theresa is kinda evil, no? *SPOILER*

That's honestly not exactly what it looked like to me. Lucien was doing the same thing you had already done, trying to pull powers from the three heroes; when you used the box you took back what was rightfully yours and stopped him from doing so.

Yes, he did the same. But you are forgetting that, in Lucien's case, he also has the Spire in his possession. I'm pretty sure he's more powerful with the spire and the obtained powers. Don't get me wrong; I'm not a Lucien-fan.

I never said it was. I simply stated that Bloodstone is not surrounded by Wraithmarsh. Theresa herself says it is surrounded by Wraithmarsh on three sides and ocean on the fourth. I used her presence in the Guild Cave to set the precedent that her visions/powers extend over bodies of water. If Bloodstone is not completely surrounded by Wraithmarsh, then she should be able to see it. Afterall she can speak to you and hear things clearly once you are in Bloodstone.

Wait... are you talking about contacting over bodies of water, via the Hero's/Guild's Seal you obtained in the beginning? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think she could contact you without the Guild Seal.

I also want to throw out there that I don't think Lucien was completely evil. He was just insane... completely and totally insane.

I don't think he's evil either... nor insane. He just wants to achieve his goal, using every little object, or person in the world. It's a very nice comparison to Hitler actually - the common term Totalitair(Total) War. Lucien did the same thing - women, men, children, none mattered to him, as all he wanted to achieve is the resurrection of his family, and a possible reshape of Albion (destroying and rebuilding it as Archon did).

 

[FiliusMartis]

Re: Theresa is kinda evil, no? *SPOILER*

Wait... are you talking about contacting over bodies of water, via the Hero's/Guild's Seal you obtained in the beginning? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think she could contact you without the Guild Seal.

Hmm? I'm saying that, theoretically of course, Theresa's powers should be able to extend to Bloodstone, as in she should be able to see Reaver and his involvement without Hammer having to go on a 'pub tour' to find out. You earlier stated that Bloodstone was surrounded by Wraithmarsh, which is only partially true. One side of Bloodstone is open against the sea which would provide a sort of gap in the fog of Wraithmarsh which affects Theresa's powers. You cited earlier the fact that Theresa has trouble contacting you in Wraithmarsh and I am asserting that she has no trouble contacting you once you reach Bloodstone. I don't believe the fog affects Bloodstone, and since there is one side of it open to the sea Theresa's powers should extend to Bloodstone. Of course, she cannot contact you without the Guild Seal in your possession, but that has little to do with her being able to "see" Bloodstone.

I don't think he's evil either... nor insane. He just wants to achieve his goal, using every little object, or person in the world. It's a very nice comparison to Hitler actually - the common term Totalitair(Total) War. Lucien did the same thing - women, men, children, none mattered to him, as all he wanted to achieve is the resurrection of his family, and a possible reshape of Albion (destroying and rebuilding it as Archon did).

On this I must completely disagree with you. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that Lucien is, or is going, stark raving mad. I'll have to go back and listen to get the exact words but I know in one of his diaries he goes on about struggling to keep hold of his few moments of clarity in which his mind functions. Also the description on the Lucien doll (which I believe is supposed to give you little extras on the characters) states that some sort of longing seems to be driving him mad. Furthermore, the fact that he believes what he is doing is RIGHT is enough to make me wonder how mentally sound he is. Still, we may just have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[Arld]

Re: Theresa is kinda evil, no? *SPOILER*

Hmm? I'm saying that, theoretically of course, Theresa's powers should be able to extend to Bloodstone, as in she should be able to see Reaver and his involvement without Hammer having to go on a 'pub tour' to find out. You earlier stated that Bloodstone was surrounded by Wraithmarsh, which is only partially true. One side of Bloodstone is open against the sea which would provide a sort of gap in the fog of Wraithmarsh which affects Theresa's powers. You cited earlier the fact that Theresa has trouble contacting you in Wraithmarsh and I am asserting that she has no trouble contacting you once you reach Bloodstone. I don't believe the fog affects Bloodstone, and since there is one side of it open to the sea Theresa's powers should extend to Bloodstone. Of course, she cannot contact you without the Guild Seal in your possession, but that has little to do with her being able to "see" Bloodstone.

Correct. The fog doesn't affect Bloodstone canonically. However, it does affect Wraithmarsh, which is my point. I think one of us have confused two totally different statements. But that said, you are correct.

On this I must completely disagree with you. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that Lucien is, or is going, stark raving mad. I'll have to go back and listen to get the exact words but I know in one of his diaries he goes on about struggling to keep hold of his few moments of clarity in which his mind functions. Also the description on the Lucien doll (which I believe is supposed to give you little extras on the characters) states that some sort of longing seems to be driving him mad. Furthermore, the fact that he believes what he is doing is RIGHT is enough to make me wonder how mentally sound he is. Still, we may just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Well, I guess the last sentence pretty much sums up of what I have to say. I still stand by my opinion - Lucien is not insane, but he just wants to reach his ultimate goal.

 

[Flair]

Re: Theresa is kinda evil, no? *SPOILER*

These holes in her knowledge though.... are quite easily explained really. If you are an evil person that knows everything.... its probably not best to brag about it. If she was just saying, go here and do this because of this, you'd be like.... ummm, according to you. Instead, she sends you to investigate something, which then leads you to discover what you already know.

Then, when you go to act on that.... seems like your idea. Its how manipulation works. Your pulling the strings... but the people your pulling think that they are really in control, shaping thier own destiny.

 

[Zarkes]

Re: Theresa is kinda evil, no? *SPOILER*

^exactly,


hmm i wonder what my ultimate goal is, i dont think i have one.

 

[laharl]

Re: Theresa is kinda evil, no? *SPOILER*

mine is domination of the netherworld...hey...wait a minute. ive already completed that!

 

[Arld]

Re: Theresa is kinda evil, no? *SPOILER*

These holes in her knowledge though.... are quite easily explained really. If you are an evil person that knows everything.... its probably not best to brag about it. If she was just saying, go here and do this because of this, you'd be like.... ummm, according to you. Instead, she sends you to investigate something, which then leads you to discover what you already know.

Then, when you go to act on that.... seems like your idea. Its how manipulation works. Your pulling the strings... but the people your pulling think that they are really in control, shaping thier own destiny.

You've elaborated my point precisely. I can't describe it any better.

 

[laharl]

Re: Theresa is kinda evil, no? *SPOILER*

i think she IS destiny

 

[Arld]

Re: Theresa is kinda evil, no? *SPOILER*

i think she IS destiny

That would be very unlikely. A person can't be destiny. However, she could change a person's destiny.

 

[Zarkes]

Re: Theresa is kinda evil, no? *SPOILER*

^destiny is what you are born to fufill, so if you believe in destiny then it cant be changed not really anyways. There are alot of old peoms and such of heroes from greece trying to change their destiny but it doesnt happen, take the oddessy for instance.

 

[Arld]

Re: Theresa is kinda evil, no? *SPOILER*

^destiny is what you are born to fufill, so if you believe in destiny then it cant be changed not really anyways. There are alot of old peoms and such of heroes from greece trying to change their destiny but it doesnt happen, take the oddessy for instance.

That's partially correct.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destiny#Different_concepts_of_destiny_and_fate

But the point is that Theresa isn't a normal person who 'can-just-look-into-the-future.'

 

[Zarkes]

Re: Theresa is kinda evil, no? *SPOILER*

Yes, idk i just get confused and stuff when i read stories about people changing destiny and Gods who can die.

 

[FiliusMartis]

Re: Theresa is kinda evil, no? *SPOILER*

The problem is for much of the game Theresa is doing just that- saying go here and do this because of this. That's essentially the essence of the core storyline up until the Hero of Skill quest. So what, she just decided that maybe she was spelling out too much and canned it at exactly that point? Especially since they all know she's a fortune teller/seer/tarot reader- they would expect her to have that knowledge. It's all just coming out too convenient to be realistic, and I sincerely hope they do better with the storyline.

As for Lucien being insane... are we just going to ignore the book Lucien the Lunatic then?

 

[Purple Nurple]

Re: Theresa is kinda evil, no? *SPOILER*

all information below taken STRAIGHT from the fable wikia :

http://fable.wikia.com/wiki/Theresa


WARNING: SPOILERS, PLOT DETAILS AND/OR ENDING
There are several hints throughout Fable II that Theresa conceals a much darker nature than she lets on, and that she may be a potential antagonist in the future.

• Lucien brings the main character and his/her sister to his castle after hearing from someone that they've successfully activated the music box. Since the seller claimed it was simply a wish granting magic box, Theresa is the only person who could have known that the children purchased and activated an old kingdom artifact.
• After becoming aware of Sister Hannah's vows of pacifism, Theresa mentions that she will need to find a reason for Hannah to fight. Lucien becomes aware of Hannah's location and his henchman kill her father almost immediately after this.
• After gathering the four heroes and "activating" the spire power within them, Theresa vanishes. Lucien then appears from nowhere and acts completely non-concerned with Theresa's absence. When asked what he had done with Theresa he states, "I listened."
• When the player meets Theresa in Bowerstone Market under the clock tower, she takes the player to the hillside introducing the Tattered Spire for the first time. Theresa mentions that when a wish is made the spire then disappears as of the previous one. After the player makes their wish spire has not yet disappeared.
• After Lucien's death, Theresa gives the player the reward of his choice and then ominously states: "But the spire... is mine, begone." After which the player has no further contact with her.

i also read this which is quite interesting:

• The Fable II Limited Edition Guide Bundle, the concept art book called "Ye' Olde Art Book" has the Art Director, John McCormack quoting:

"We used a few hooks and links to the original Fable in the sequel. One of the main ones was the use of Theresa, who was the Hero's blind sister in Fable 1. She is now a strange, ageless, wandering fortune teller in Albion who acts as the player's guide throughout the game... but there's more to her than a simple tutorial, quest giving device... she has secrets and her motives aren't particularly clear."

 

[FiliusMartis]

Re: Theresa is kinda evil, no? *SPOILER*

Is a wikia an official source and I missed that somehow? If so, my apologies...

First of all, Murgo the trader claims that it is a wish granting box created and used by the ancients, the rulers of the Old Kingdom themselves to be exact. Secondly, Lucien is already aware of the children most likely being heroes before they buy that box, it's in his diary. Thirdly, the box makes quite a show of... blowing up in a magical light. None of us know how Albion Old Kingdom artifacts work; the box itself could have signaled to Lucien that it had been activated.

Your second point coincides with what I already said. Theresa doesn't know everything; from the way that's written she becomes aware of Hannah's vow of pacifism at the same time you do.

I don't understand what the next point is supposed to be. Lucien listened... okay. That doesn't mean they were working together or that Theresa is evil.. it could simply mean he eavesdropped on her, remember how Twinblade did in Fable I. I'm not sure where you're going with this.

I don't remember her saying the Spire is supposed to disappear. She says civilizations were wiped out and many believe that was the first wish. If that is so then the Hero's Spire would still be there since he or she didn't wish for destruction. If I missed what you're talking about then quote it directly please.

I'm not really sure where you're going here, are you just adding some facts from a wiki or are you making an argument/debate point? Especially stating that her motives aren't clear- that doesn't do anything to further the argument that she's evil. It leaves everything up in the air... is that what you were going for? I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding you.

 

[Purple Nurple]

Re: Theresa is kinda evil, no? *SPOILER*

well a wikia cant be considered a complete 'source' to back up my answers...apart from the fact that everythin the wikia says happens in the game, and youd have to be pretty special not to realise that.

anyway, your first point says that murgo understand shizzle about the old kingdom!?!?!?! sorry, but didn't theresa say, 'the seller that sold it to you didn't know what he had'? or something along those lines. murgo didn't know anything. i couldn't be arsed to read luciens diary, and as for the box exploding into light, it's not that big, and he would have to have been looking out of his window at axactly the right tim.

well...okay since theresa is a seeress, lets assume that she really IS a seeress, and that lionhead isn't pulling our leg. because she is a seeress, she must be able to see the future, correct? and as someone posted a couple posts up, the gaps in her knowledge were just to lead the player astray from her seemingly unknown motives.
: 'These holes in her knowledge though.... are quite easily explained really. If you are an evil person that knows everything.... its probably not best to brag about it. If she was just saying, go here and do this because of this, you'd be like.... ummm, according to you. Instead, she sends you to investigate something, which then leads you to discover what you already know.

Then, when you go to act on that.... seems like your idea. Its how manipulation works. Your pulling the strings... but the people your pulling think that they are really in control, shaping thier own destiny.' thanks, flair.

the third point can't really be a main turning point, as again, no-one knows what 'i listened' actually means. i think its highly improbable that theresa just fell asleep and whilst she was whispering these prophetic truths in her sleep, that lucien happened to stumble upon her and hear them. no, i think its implying that theresa explained to lucien where the heroes were etc, and he listened to her. after all, she can see the future and therefore understands that her telling lucien will lead to her acquiring the spire.

she said that the spire disappeared whilst in bowerstone, the same time she gives you the fate cards. im sorry, but i really dont have the time to play through the game again and get the exact words for you.

and yes, i was just adding some facts to the discussion, just to highlight the main points for the arguement that theresa is a slightly evil. and saying that her motives are unclear does further the discussion, as it seems as many people (yourself included, i shall presume) believes that theresa just wanted to create a spire (because that's what she did, she supplied the heroes for lucien). the point of theresa's motives being unclear just show that there is more to theresa than is accounted for so far, which is the whole point of this discussion, as it is trying to understand whether her motives were good or evil. and the point about it leaving everythin up in the air - can we do any better? its hardly as if there's some secret message written in the game that tells us the truth. WE PLAINLY DONT KNOW, until lionhead reveals it to us. its called an open discussion because it has no definate answer.

 

[Zarkes]

Re: Theresa is kinda evil, no? *SPOILER*

you post very long stuff.