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Donor Organs

Tsuyu

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Actually I was wrong. Despite their refusal to recieve/give blood, Jehova's Witnesses are apparently fine with recieving/donating organs. Good for them but it seems a bit strange.


I learned something today.
 

Arseface

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Actually I was wrong. Despite their refusal to recieve/give blood, Jehova's Witnesses are apparently fine with recieving/donating organs. Good for them but it seems a bit strange.

I learned something today.

That's surprisingly out of character.
 

r5v3n

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I would say no to donating organs or blood or whatever. For a purely evolutionary reason, of course. You see, human intelligence are enabling people with inferior genetic traits to survive: donating organs is a classic example, along with the issue of mentally cross-wised people getting a chance to mate by blabbing in the courts. Really, those who are meant to die should die! You hear me? DIE!
 

Tsuyu

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Your inability to grasp the core concept of evolution saddens me. Just knowing we're in the same genus makes me ashamed to call myself a homo.
 

r5v3n

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Your inability to grasp the core concept of evolution saddens me. Just knowing we're in the same genus makes me ashamed to call myself a homo.
Oh, you misunderstood me. I know evolution, believe me. The core concept of evolution is change (or if you like, natural selection). Pure, indifferent change. Whether it is based on behaviour, genetics, or technology (see the Singularity movement)-- change is the prime mover of all things based on evolution. Take the finches (Darwin's classic example) on the Galapagos islands: it is assumed that these birds evolved from one original specie, or progenitor specie. The birds settled on the different islands along the Galapagos group and were 'screened' from one another by a physical barrier (namely, a large body of water; as finches ordinarily don't cross large stretches of open water). The different islands had different plant life (one island had more cactuses, the other had more nut-bearing trees, you get the point) and thus, over a period of time, the finches adapted accordingly to the available plant supply: so much as that one specie developed a strong crushing bill, the other developed a slender beak capable of picking cactus spines to dig out insects. Their behavior, also, have greatly changed -- the nut-eating variety would have lived on the ground where fallen nuts are in abundance while the spine- using one would 'learn' how to use spines as a possible tool for catching insects. After the long geographic isolation, it is possible to 'reunite' this long-lost 'family members' and try to breed them, which of course fails because of the differences in mating behaviour, as well as the differences in their genetic codings. Thus, change is a significant and primary cause in the 'branching' of an original specie into different specialized organisms.
 

Tyloric

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I'm not officially an organ donor, but every in my family knows to donate them if I should perish before they do.

Though I should probably make it official eventually.
 

cheezMcNASTY

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Oh, you misunderstood me. I know evolution, believe me.
Yes, that would be the classic example of evolution. But mutations can occur that make a species less likely, more likely, or just as likely (like being born with a mutation for blue hair) to survive. It's natural selection that determines how beneficial the trait is. Where you and Tsuyu differ is that you seem to think that natural selection does not apply to human society because we have removed ourselves from nature - that's where I think you're wrong. Traits that would make us unable to survive in a natural setting do not hinder us in our own society.

Example: Steven Hawking. He would be screwed if we were still living in the woods. He got treatment, and he's quite possibly the smartest person on the planet. Someone who needs a kidney transplant could go on to be a successful member of society.
 

Tsuyu

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Needing an organ transplant has nothing to do with failing evolution's test.

Your long post does nothing to support your argument.

I would elaborate but I'm on my iPhone right now and I hate typing with it.
 

Gikoku

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What harm is there in donating one's own organs? It's going to rot away into nothing when you die so you lose them anyway, and it's not like you're going to need them anymore either. You're dead!

I'm not officially an organ donor, but every in my family knows to donate them if I should perish before they do.

Though I should probably make it official eventually.

Every what?
 

Arseface

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Oh, you misunderstood me. I know evolution, believe me. The core concept of evolution is change (or if you like, natural selection). Pure, indifferent change. Whether it is based on behaviour, genetics, or technology (see the Singularity movement)-- change is the prime mover of all things based on evolution. Take the finches (Darwin's classic example) on the Galapagos islands: it is assumed that these birds evolved from one original specie, or progenitor specie. The birds settled on the different islands along the Galapagos group and were 'screened' from one another by a physical barrier (namely, a large body of water; as finches ordinarily don't cross large stretches of open water). The different islands had different plant life (one island had more cactuses, the other had more nut-bearing trees, you get the point) and thus, over a period of time, the finches adapted accordingly to the available plant supply: so much as that one specie developed a strong crushing bill, the other developed a slender beak capable of picking cactus spines to dig out insects. Their behavior, also, have greatly changed -- the nut-eating variety would have lived on the ground where fallen nuts are in abundance while the spine- using one would 'learn' how to use spines as a possible tool for catching insects. After the long geographic isolation, it is possible to 'reunite' this long-lost 'family members' and try to breed them, which of course fails because of the differences in mating behaviour, as well as the differences in their genetic codings. Thus, change is a significant and primary cause in the 'branching' of an original specie into different specialized organisms.

Well done. So why are we letting the people who need organs die?
 

r5v3n

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We are not allowing evolution weed out the, shall we say, people with inferior genes. Sure, a few brainy people would die, but over time we can develop people with a better combination of healthy genes and even better brains. You see, the more good genes in a population, the faster would be the production of better genes.

Still, it's just my sadistic idea for letting people die on their faulty organs while I stare at them in their death throes. And, anyway, the Darwinian hypothesis is really getting outmoded. Which is why I am rooting out for the Singularity.
 

Arseface

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We are not allowing evolution weed out the, shall we say, people with inferior genes. Sure, a few brainy people would die, but over time we can develop people with a better combination of healthy genes and even better brains. You see, the more good genes in a population, the faster would be the production of better genes.

Still, it's just my sadistic idea for letting people die on their faulty organs while I stare at them in their death throes. And, anyway, the Darwinian hypothesis is really getting outmoded. Which is why I am rooting out for the Singularity.

All kinds of cool, progressive people had ideas like that. Hitler is the first one that springs to mind.
 

Tsuyu

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Dude gets hit by car and dies. Natural selection.

Totally.

As I said before, most situations that requires blood or organ transplants have absolutely nothing to do with being an inferior human specimen. If you get shot in a robbery and have to get a blood tranfusion to not bleed out, there is no "getting robbed and shot" gene to pass down to your offspring. If anything, the very concept of blood/organ donation is proof of the resourcefulness of us humans ehich has allowed us to have evolved into the dominant species on Earth.

You may grasp the basics if how evolution works, but you fail at applying to real situations, r5v3n. Oh and did I mention that most people getting organ transplants are adults which makes it likely that they have already reproduced?
 

Arseface

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Also, once smart people do more smart people stuff, we'll be able to create genetically perfect humans, making natural selection a thing of the past.
 

Angel

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I r confused...people with inferior organs should die? What, because they are no good to society? Or are dumb? Or have I completely misunderstood here?
 

Tsuyu

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He is making the argument that you should not donate because by allowing people to live on thanks to donations you are working against evolution and the progress of us humans as a species.

Which is all hogwash, of course. A flawed and faulty interpretation of "survival of the fittest".
 

Angel

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Sooo...by that logic we should spurn any form of medical science that allows us to live longer? Guess I ought to go top meself now seeing as it's only through medical science that I'm alive. I'll bump the kids off first too - they're a product of life-saving intervention as well. Steve should be alright though...
 
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