Anyone from California....

[Fenrir]

Re: Anyone from California....

What good are these weapons with no one to operate them. No U.S. soldier will open fire on american citizens, even ones in revolution. The american populace vastly outnumbers the military even if that werent the case, and we have access to weapons better than simple pistols and shotguns. I'm not about to start discussing combat strategy but take my word the people would win. For the record I was raised by a Ranger sniper.

 

[pantsontheground]

Re: Anyone from California....

^Yes and that makes no difference: Alot of people with pistols and rifles vs a government with rockets bombs and machine guns.
And if we legalised machine guns for civies we would have A tonne more of crime.

We also have shotguns and sniper rifles. Would you rather fight someone whos on a rooftop and has a sniper rifle with a machine gun? I don't think so.

And you people haven't answered my question :realmad:

 

[Fenrir]

Re: Anyone from California....

Sorry pants, your SOL. Almost nothing is legal In Califoria without and expensive permit. Where I live, if a gun is labeled "California legal", It's a s**tty gun. As for crime, it doesnt matter if you ban automatic rifles, criminals will either aquire them illegally or spend less money and simply commit crimes with another type of weapon. You wont stop them by restricting guns with laws they have no respect for in the first place.

 

[Firis]

Re: Anyone from California....

No soldier will open fire on a U.S revolutionary? Ha.
Furthermore illegal Auto weapons make it MUCH harder to find them, and it poses more of a risk if you are caught, I am not debating that pistols shouldn't be aloud, I am just saying high caliber and automatic weaponry aren't and shouldn't be open to the public.

 

[Fenrir]

Re: Anyone from California....

No soldier will open fire on a U.S revolutionary? Ha.
Furthermore illegal Auto weapons make it MUCH harder to find them, and it poses more of a risk if you are caught, I am not debating that pistols shouldn't be aloud, I am just saying high caliber and automatic weaponry aren't and shouldn't be open to the public.

Your foolishness astounds me. The point was that criminals dont stop shooting people just because they dont have automatics to do it. They will just use something else. No, automatics are not needed by civilians, I myself have no desire to own one because they waste ammunition. I prefer weapons where I can make every shot count. I can go on like this forever. I can offer a counter to any argument you have and run you out of things to say, because I'm right, and you'll likely see for yourself oneday.

 

[Firis]

Re: Anyone from California....

Your foolishness astounds me. The point was that criminals dont stop shooting people just because they dont have automatics to do it. They will just use something else. No, automatics are not needed by civilians, I myself have no desire to own one because they waste ammunition. I prefer weapons where I can make every shot count. I can go on like this forever. I can offer a counter to any argument you have and run you out of things to say, because I'm right, and you'll likely see for yourself oneday.

Alright, fair enough below is the post I was responding to.
But I will take time to address some issues:
1. Your logic was "What criminal would stick up a man knowing they could have a gun." (Not exact words.) It doesn't matter if the victim has a gun unless he is able to draw, raise, aim and fire his gun at the criminal in the time it takes the criminal to only pull the trigger. The only time that logic would apply is if there was more than just one person, and it takes a bad/desperate crook to assault two or more people.

2. I was saying that my only point (Which wasn't completely towards you) was that guns should be allowed as long as they are not high caliber, explosive or automatic. However you did make a statement that seemed to imply that it should be legal to have anything more than single fire low caliber weaponry (See bolded letters below).

What good are these weapons with no one to operate them. No U.S. soldier will open fire on american citizens, even ones in revolution. The american populace vastly outnumbers the military even if that werent the case, and we have access to weapons better than simple pistols and shotguns. I'm not about to start discussing combat strategy but take my word the people would win. For the record I was raised by a Ranger sniper.

This is what some of my earlier post was directed at:
1. A soldier is to follow orders, even if he dislikes them, and as long as he is payed well (Or an officer/comrade controlling him is payed well enough to shoot him if he doesn't) he will do it. Even if it hurts his own team. And if they joined the military of a corrupt government then they probably liked the government more anyway.

2. Saying you come from a military family says nothing.



Again with all due respect
~ Firis

 

[Fenrir]

Re: Anyone from California....

It may suprise you to hear that the majority of people in this country do not know that our government is corrupt and long overdue for a revolution. Soldiers have been asked this question, they say if it comes to revolution they are abandoning their posts and returning to their families. Let any commanding officer get between a squad of fathers and their children, he'll be dead on the ground before he knows where he f**ked up.

 

[Firis]

Re: Anyone from California....

It may suprise you to hear that the majority of people in this country do not know that our government is corrupt and long overdue for a revolution. Soldiers have been asked this question, they say if it comes to revolution they are abandoning their posts and returning to their families. Let any commanding officer get between a squad of fathers and their children, he'll be dead on the ground before he knows where he f**ked up.

Thank you for answering all of part one.

Where did you read that? I am not saying it is false, I am just saying that if we COULD revolutionize why haven't we done it? And what about those who would stay, and again your missing the point of forced service: "In Soviet military, you have to have more courage to retreat than to advance." They said that because you would be shot for retreating.
The Wehrmacht didn't often abandon their posts during WWII when the SS were around. You don't see Fidel dead several times over do you?

 

[Fenrir]

Re: Anyone from California....

The reason we havent revolutionized yet is because the majority of people in america dont know their personal freedoms are in danger and many others dont care. They'll trade their freedom for what they think is security. If things keep going this way a second civil war/revolution will be started. This country is currently dangerously close to becoming a socialist state. I'll admit my source on the soldiers is all second hand information but think about it. Almost every man in the military has family. During a national crisis, they are going to say "to hell with my job, my family needs me." I have a friend who quit the marines for this exact reason. He knew where we are heading. So he endured the ridicule of his commanding officers who told him he was stupid for doing it, that he'll never amount to anything, and he told them "I'm done, I'm going home, my family needs me."

 

[Arseface]

Re: Anyone from California....

Gun Control in the USA - My View

Guns do not create or influence violence. Education does. Better education = less crime. If a mugger thinks that a potential victim might have a gun, it's a simple matter of the mugger pointing his gun at them before they can draw.

The second amendment is fundamentally flawed. The reason being that it is illegal to revolt, and with all the laws against treason, etc, it's not going to happen unless the droded really hits the fan. The amount of propaganda already being spewed out by the US government is enough to prevent a revolt anyway. Secondly, the US army will always be more advanced and better armed than any group of civillians. In a civillian vs millitary style revolt you would need quite a large portion of the population involved and at least one good general in order to win.

 

[Firis]

Re: Anyone from California....

Gun Control in the USA - My View

Guns do not create or influence violence. Education does. Better education = less crime. If a mugger thinks that a potential victim might have a gun, it's a simple matter of the mugger pointing his gun at them before they can draw.

The second amendment is fundamentally flawed. The reason being that it is illegal to revolt, and with all the laws against treason, etc, it's not going to happen unless the droded really hits the fan. The amount of propaganda already being spewed out by the US government is enough to prevent a revolt anyway. Secondly, the US army will always be more advanced and better armed than any group of civillians. In a civillian vs millitary style revolt you would need quite a large portion of the population involved and at least one good general in order to win.

You know that feeling where you are like "This is how I feel." and then you read what someone else types and you think "Actually, that is how I feel." I thank you for reminding me how I feel.

The reason we havent revolutionized yet is because the majority of people in america dont know their personal freedoms are in danger and many others dont care. They'll trade their freedom for what they think is security. If things keep going this way a second civil war/revolution will be started. This country is currently dangerously close to becoming a socialist state. I'll admit my source on the soldiers is all second hand information but think about it. Almost every man in the military has family. During a national crisis, they are going to say "to hell with my job, my family needs me." I have a friend who quit the marines for this exact reason. He knew where we are heading. So he endured the ridicule of his commanding officers who told him he was stupid for doing it, that he'll never amount to anything, and he told them "I'm done, I'm going home, my family needs me."

I know this will get me flamed but: What is wrong with a Socialist state?
I respect all you say, and having read your Message I do agree to continue tomorrow, through the PM system though if you don't mind.

 

[Tsuyu]

Re: Anyone from California....

When the second amendment was written, the plan was for evey citizen of America to have a gun so that if the government turns into a corrupt one (caugh, caugh) that every citizen would rise up in revolution and overthrow it, and re-establish it as it was meant to be, for the people.

Well, actually.....

[youtube]_0yn23wXtbw[/youtube]

 

[Skotekal]

Re: Anyone from California....

You know that feeling where you are like "This is how I feel." and then you read what someone else types and you think "Actually, that is how I feel." I thank you for reminding me how I feel.



I know this will get me flamed but: What is wrong with a Socialist state?
I respect all you say, and having read your Message I do agree to continue tomorrow, through the PM system though if you don't mind.

It doesn't work. :noexpression:

 

[Arseface]

Re: Anyone from California....

It doesn't work. :noexpression:

No, it hasn't worked because no one's done it right.

 

[Tsuyu]

Re: Anyone from California....

This thread is depressing. It shows just how unlearned people are about weapons: why to have them, when to use them, how to use them; how unlearned people are about the second amendment: what it means, why it was written; and how hard it must be to admit that you know nothing and just walk away from a discussion, and this is the part where I just point my finger around and those who know who they are admit to themselves that I'm talking about them, even if they do not admit it.

What? You mean that Family Guy isn't historically accurate? Wow... you've just turned my world upside-down, John!

 

[Arseface]

Re: Anyone from California....

I'm pretty sure the clip Tsuyu posted is a primary source....