star wars vs. lord of the rings

[Tsuyu]

Re: star wars vs. lord of the rings

LotR is more like separate installments of one story.

Which is exactly what makes it a trilogy. Sorry, but no matter how you twist it, it will still be a trilogy in the very sense of the word.

Trilogy;
A literary composition, usually a novel or a play, written in three parts, each of which is a complete unit in itself.

And the first three Star Wars movies (the good old ones) are also a trilogy, again no matter how you twist and turn it because it tells you the story about the same characters in an story arch that spans over the movies - remember, the first movies are the "end" of the Star Wars franchise really as all the other movies pretty much takes place before those original three.

And six books? What crazy edition have you got? There's always been three books.

 

[Walker]

Re: star wars vs. lord of the rings

No, there haven't been. There have always been 3 Volumes (three separate books), each split into two sections called Books, for Book 1-Book 6.

No. I still disagree. I don't think the volumes of Lord of the Rings qualify as a trilogy-- I count them as one book too damn long to fit in a tome of a sane and rational size (though, yes, they do occasionally cram them all into one book, and I prefer it when they do). You can easily disagree, however, since really it's a matter of semantic opinion.

And... yeah, I do agree with you about Star Wars. That's what I was trying to say. There are three movies (IV-VI, I'm staying as far away from I-III as possible in this discussion, simply because they are so obviously separated that they can't be anything BUT a trilogy) telling the general story of the fight against the Empire, but each carrying its own coherent, individual, storyline. That's a trilogy.

(PS I'm happy to say that I finally have solid proof that I'm not the only ginormous bookworm of a nerd here. Or at least not the only obsessed nerd. The fact that we're "discussing"/arguing/debating whether Lord of the Rings is a trilogy is all the proof I need.)

 

[Tsuyu]

Re: star wars vs. lord of the rings

And... yeah, I do agree with you about Star Wars. That's what I was trying to say. There are three movies (IV-VI, I'm staying as far away from I-III as possible in this discussion, simply because they are so obviously separated that they can't be anything BUT a trilogy) telling the general story of the fight against the Empire, but each carrying its own coherent, individual, storyline. That's a trilogy.

Change "the fight against the Empire" to "the fight against Sauron and plotting to destroy the One Ring" and you've got more proof that it is, in fact, a trilogy.


:ninja:

 

[LionHeadTex]

Re: star wars vs. lord of the rings

Lord of the Rings was originally going to be a full book, but had to be split. Now, it's basically a trilogy. I do see it as whole, though.

Oh yea, and just because star wars has more games and toys..doesn't mean it's better. A better series comes to the MOVIE or the BOOK, not all the little things before it or after. The only reason why LOTR games aren't as good as star wars games, is that LOTR games are made by EA. (well, most)

Why does LOTR not have as many ****? Because it's cool like that. It doesn't need all the toys and games to make it legendary...because its a piece of art that most of us will remember. ^_^

it doesn't need action figures that swing swords and games that get awards to like the series, you know why? Because no matter how many damn parades they have at MGM...LOTR, I believe, will always be stronger in plot line...characters...excitement...etc etc. It doesn't need a disney parade or a franchise of video games.

I've never heard any of my friends say, "Lord of the rings is getting old" :wacko:

I beg to differ to people who do think it is old, because guess what? A new LOTR book is out..and it's called the Children of Hurin. :lolBy the way, nothing gets old if its truly good)

I mean cmon people, when Clone Wars came out during the time of The Two Towers...which one were you most satisfied with? In my opinion, it was The Two Towers. :ninja:

-LHT
For LOTR!:ninja:

 

[Tsuyu]

Re: star wars vs. lord of the rings

Now, it's basically a trilogy. I do see it as whole, though.

That is just what makes it a trilogy, and not just three books in the same series. One main story spread out over three books, with each book also counting as a seperate work.

 

[blu phoenix]

Re: star wars vs. lord of the rings

However many times you say it, Lord of the Rings was a trilogy. I mean fans, other novelists/writers, refer to it as a trilogy, so I think it's pretty safe to say that it is. Even the movies are referred to as so, so there's no getting around that it's not. Star Wars was a trilogy, just like Lord of the Rings. There's plenty of proof!

Anyways, LHT, I definitely agree about the merchandise and LOTR not getting old. Although I must admit that when Clone Wars(talking about the animated series right?) came out it was spectacular, and much better than any of the prequels, however, Two Towers blew me away, even though it wasn't my favorite of the trilogy. Still you're absolutely right.

 

[Tsuyu]

Re: star wars vs. lord of the rings

Anyways, LHT, I definitely agree about the merchandise and LOTR not getting old. Although I must admit that when Clone Wars(talking about the animated series right?) came out it was spectacular, and much better than any of the prequels, however, Two Towers blew me away, even though it wasn't my favorite of the trilogy. Still you're absolutely right.

The LotR movies pretty much (attempted to change) changed all that though!

lotr action figure - Google Image Search

Hehe. But it remains true, before the movies there was like a negative ammount of LotR merchandise.

A-dor-able.

 

[Walker]

Re: star wars vs. lord of the rings

Yes, Star Wars is a trilogy... but you aren't going to convince me that Lord of the Rings is. You also can't convince me that Star Wars has the same level of interrelation between the movies as Lord of the Rings does between books.

Long story short, you can't convince me, and I'm going to stop arguing because I'm outnumbered and, as I said, it's mostly an opinion thing.

 

[Albion Knight]

Re: star wars vs. lord of the rings

Star Wars has better Parity films
Star Wars has better Fan Films
Star Wars had better characters
Star Wars has better weapons
Star Wars has better villians

In what way is LOTR better

 

[blue crow]

Re: star wars vs. lord of the rings

^ You sir rock + rep.

 

[Hexadecimal]

Re: star wars vs. lord of the rings

Star Wars has better Parity films
Star Wars has better Fan Films
Star Wars had better characters
Star Wars has better weapons
Star Wars has better villians

In what way is LOTR better

:w00t: agreed

... did you mean parody films in the first one?
nothing beats the Mel Brooks parody of Star Wars, Spaceballs... NOTHING...

 

[LionHeadTex]

Re: star wars vs. lord of the rings

Star Wars has better Parity films
Star Wars has better Fan Films
Star Wars had better characters
Star Wars has better weapons
Star Wars has better villians

In what way is LOTR better

First off, better villains?

Sauron (Uses a mace to destroy countless opponents, forged the ring AND looks kick ***. He is so powerful and lured to the ring, he is now a mere Eye on a tower. But, if you've seen the movies, Sauron can still rule...even if he's just an eye.)

Sarumon (White wizard, can blast fireballs and uses a Palantir to see what Sauron sees...and much, much more)

Wormtounge (He uses wit over strength, lured Theoden to madness and almost destroyed Gondor with the words he spoke. He isn't called Wormtounge for nothing.)

Gothmog (An Orc, captain of the Orc Army, rides a giant Warg (big wolf), and can dodge large pieces of debris in the air :lol

Witch King (Alright...this might take awhile. Has a flaming sword that can lurein everything in his radius. For example, when he was against Gandalf, he destroyed his staff and used the Nazgul scream to weaken troops. Not only that, he has a giant mace that can crush a Man in one hit. He also looks kick ***.)

Ring Wraiths (Corrupted men that once were ring bearers. In book 1, they ride horses and hack and slash with long swords. In books 2 and 3, they ride Nazgul (big dragon-like creatures)

Nazgul (Like I said, dragon-like creatures that use their sheer screams to weaken the enemy. Not only that, but their talons can hurtle a bakers dozen enemies in one hit.)

Orc (In the middle of a Goblin and a Uru-Kai

Uru-Kai (Tall creatures of Sarumon. Once Elves, they became enslaved and tortured. Mutilated, and when the time came, they were a whole different race. Tall and strong, these are the best of the breed for Sarumon)

Goblin (Little orcs, you could say Come in large swarms, use their numbers to destroy their enemies)

Cave Troll/ Mountain Troll (Big ***, kick ***, and strong *** creatures that can hurl rocks...use chains as death devices, uses stone clubs to destroy their enemies...and of course, much more)

The Ring (Do I have to explain this?)

Gollum (Some pity him, and that's how Gollum gets the ring from Frodo..all the way to Mount Doom. I don't have to explain him much, but all I can say is he's a rare villian. Once a hobbit, the ring made him something else. A junkie, some would say)

Wargs (Big wolves that can tear an enemy to bits. They also run damn fast)

MUMAKILL
(Lemme give you a quick list of these baddies)
-Have Haradrim (sp) Archers on a two level tower on top of these elephant- like creatures.
-They have long tusks, and are huuuuge elephants
-Have barbed wire tied in between their gigantic tusks (If you've seen ROTk, you know what those do)
-Can stomp on pretty much anything.
-Are very hard to kill, if you don't know how
-They're just so awesome.

Shealob (The big spider in ROTK, do I have to explain this villain?)

^And, that's just in the movies...I believe there's more in the books
^I might have left out some things also...or missed some stuff, but i'm a bit tired at the moment XD

I disagree that Star Wars has better weapons. Yea, Lightsabers. But it depends what kind of taste you like. I prefer swords, spears, bows etc...but that's because that's the kind I prefer. I like...more realistic weapons. I always liked that, because in LOTR...you get normal weapons versus terrible creatures, and it's like a mix of reality and fable, I guess ^_^

Also, LOTR has magic...and trolls (which hurl boulders) Oh, and powerful maces. Also Wargs.


Better characters? Wait...better characters?

DO I have to explain these?
Gandalf (You...shall not...pass! Should I say anything else?)
Gimli ("May the best dwarf win")
Aragorn
Frodo
Sam
Pippin
Merry
Legolas (Rides Mumakill's, jumps on trolls, surfs on Uru-Kai shields down stairs while shooting arrows. All these happen in the movies)
Theoden
Eomer (can throw a spear across a field that no other man can reach, I mean...he's a Olympic champion)
Arwen
Eowen
Elrond
Smeagol
Boromir
Faramir
Denethor (what an ***...)
Bilbo
And a lot more, like Tom Bombadil (Who, in fact, uses music and dance to destroy armies of evil and hatred)
Better fan films and parodies? Well, who cares really? :lol: As long as the books and movies are good, I don't need a parody or a fan film to laugh. There's already a parody in LOTR, its name, or shall I say HIS name, is Gimli.

LOTR, I believe, also has better locations. But, I shouldn't need to list them. :lol:

:ninja:
-LHT

Wait...I forgot one small thing. The Army of the Dead.

^Keep in mind, this is just my opinion. But then again, this argument is just everyones opinion.

 

[Tsuyu]

Re: star wars vs. lord of the rings

Long story short, you can't convince me, and I'm going to stop arguing because I'm outnumbered and, as I said, it's mostly an opinion thing.

The LotR is the very definition of a trilogy. I mean, you could have it your opinion that the earth is flat, not round, but that doesn't change the 'facts'.


EDIT: Meh.. that came out alot more smart-assy than I wanted....

And LTH, you failed to mention the totally awsome Mouth of Sauron!

Mouth of Sauron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's a shame they didn't use him in the final cut of the movies, he looks awsome.

 

[Albion Knight]

Re: star wars vs. lord of the rings

If you think listing Charicters counts then

Spoiler

Character

Aak, Ask
Aarrba the Hutt
Ackbar, Admiral
Ackmena
Acros-Krik
Adiss, Cane
Agira, Nyrat
Ak-rev
Alavar, Nee
Allie, Stass
Amaiza
Amedda, Mas
Amidala, Padmé
Anduvil of Ogem
Anor, Nom
Antilles, Wedge
Apailana, Queen
Argente, Passel
Arrogantus, Serji-X
Autem, Sagoro
Baab, Fema
Baba, Ponda
Bacara, Commander
Bagwa, Hermione
Bandon, Darth
Baobab, Mungo
Bar Gane, Edcel
Barada
Barrek, Daakman
Beedo, Aldar
Been, Rep
Bees, Nem
Bel Iblis, Garm
Bibble, Sio
Billaba, Depa
Bindo, Jolee
Binks, Jar Jar
Blue, Anchor
Bly, Commander
Bodonawieedo, Doda
Bolt, Dud
Bonkik, Pax
Bossk
Brakiss
Breemu, Bana
Briqualon, Noa
Bulq, Sora
C'baoth, Joruus
Callista
Calrissian, Lando
Captison, Gaeriel
Carl
Charal
Chewbacca
Chion, Olana
Chirpa, Chief
Chukha-Trok
Cody, Clone Commander
Coorr, Ronet
Cordé
Corey, Swilla
Corobb, Roron
Cracken, Pash
Crumb, Salacious
D'an, Barquin
Daala, Admiral
Danlé, Theomet
Danu, Giddean
Darklighter, Biggs (Red Three)
Dassyne, General Oro
Dellso, Gizor
Dengar
Derlin, Major Bren
Dio, Lexi
Doc
Dod, Lott
Dodonna, General Jan
Dofine, Daultay
Dofine, Lushros
Dooku, Count
Dormé
Dowmeia, Tundra
Durge
Durron, Kyp
Eekway, Chi
Endocott, Ebe
Evazan, Doctor
Farnmir, Kalyn
Farr, Onaconda
Farr, Toryn
Faytonni, Lieutenant Dannl
Fett, Boba
Fett, Jango
Fey'lya, Borsk
Fiolla
Fisto, Kit
Fode and Beed
Fortuna, Bib
Frix, Grizz
Gaff
Gallandro
Gallia, Adi
Gargan, Yarna D'al
Garindan (Long Snoot)
Gasgano
Ghent
Gi, Sha'a
Giant Flog
Godalhi, Janu
Gragra
Grahrk, Vilmarh
Grammel, Captain-Supervisor
Gree, Commander
Greeata
Greedo
Grey, Ottegru
Grievous, General
Gunray, Nute
Guo, Mars
Haako, Rune
Halla
Hida, Nar
Hill, San
Holdfast, Clegg
Horn, Corran
Isard, Ysanne
Isolder
Izrina, Queen
Jabba the Hutt
Jamillia, Queen
Janson, Lieutenant Wes
Jaxxon
Jerjerrod, Moff
Jessa
Jettster, Dexter
Jinn, Qui-Gon
Jira
Jowil, Augara "Augie"
Juhani
Jukassa, Zett
Julpa, Mon
K'Kruhk
Kabe
Kaink
Kang, Davik
Kanos, Kir
Karath, Admiral Saul
Karrde, Talon
Katarn, Kyle
Kee, Neva
Kee, Tas
Keed'kak, Kitik
Kenobi, Obi-Wan (Ben)
Ketwol
Ki-Adi-Mundi
Kitster
Klivian, Derek "Hobbie" (Rogue Four)
Kolar, Agen
Koon, Plo
Koong, Governor
Koth, Eeth
Kuat, Onara
Kun, Exar
Lah, Warmaster Tsavong
Lars, Beru
Lars, Cliegg
Lars, Owen
Leektar
Lobot
Logray
Lufba, Wam "Blam"
Lumiya
Madine, General Crix
Magaloof
Mai, Shu
Mak, Elan
Malé-Dee
Malak, Darth
Mandrell, Ody
Maul, Darth
Mawhonic
McCool, Droopy (Snit)
McKnives, Jasper
Me, Lyn
Meade, Jessica
Med-Beq, Achk
Medon, Tion
Melas
Melee
Merumeru
Metonae, Corla
Midanyl, Sena Leikvold
Moe, Aks
Mon, Ephant
Monn, Voolvif
Moore, Sly
Mothma, Mon
Motti, Admiral
Moudama, Foul
Muftak
Naberrie, Jobal
Naberrie, Pooja
Naberrie, Ruwee
Naberrie, Ryoo
Naberrie, Sola
Nadon, Momaw
Nass, Boss
Needa, Captain Lorth
Neyo, Commander
Nilo
Nord, Calo
Nu, Jocasta
Nudo, Po
Nunb, Nien
Nym
Odle, Hermi
Odumin
Offee, Barriss
Oicunn, Lieutenant
Olié, Ric
Onasi, Carth
Oola
Ordo, Canderous
Organa, Bail
Orrimaarko
Ozzel, Admiral Kendal
Pablo-Jill
Paddie, Ister
Pagalies, Teemto
Palpatine
Panaka, Captain
Papanoida, Baron
Paploo
Peacebringer, Aron
Pellaeon, Gilad
Piell, Even
Piett, Admiral
Poggle the Lesser
Poof, Yarael
Porkins, Jek (Red Six)
Praji, Tannon
Qel-Droma, Ulic
Quadinaros, Ben
Ralter, Dack
Rancisis, Oppo
Rappertunie
Rebo, Max
Red Leader
Ree-Yees
Rekab, Captain Teyora
Rekkon
Ren-Cha, Gir Kybo
Rendar, Dash
Reti
Rho, Myhr
Rieekan, General Carlist
Roor, Boles
Roose, Ark "Bumpy"
Rukh
Rystáll
Ryyder, Horox
Sabé
Saelt-Marae
Salporin
Sandage, Wan
Scambras, Pello
Screed, Admiral
Sebulba
Secura, Aayla
Seirr, Tarr
Senesca, Zev (Rogue Two)
Shaliqua, Diva
Shan, Bastila
Shessaun, Silya
Shire, Tanith
Shodu
Sidious, Darth
Sing, Aurra
Skywalker, Anakin
Skywalker, Luke
Skywalker, Mara Jade
Skywalker, Shmi
Sleazebaggano, Elan
Snitkin, Pote
Snootles, Sy
Solo, Anakin
Solo, Han
Solo, Jacen
Solo, Jaina
Solo, Princess Leia Organa
Stark, Iaco
Su, Lama
Swan, Bultar
Sylo, Paxi
Taa, Orn Free
Tachi, Siri
Tagge, General
Tambor, Wat
Taneel, Terr
Tarfful
Taria, Sei
Tarkin, Grand Moff
Tarkov
Tarpals, Captain
Teek
Teers, Rep
Tel, Rango "Tank Head"
Terak
Tessek
Tharen, Bria
Thire, Commander
Thrawn, Grand Admiral
Ti, Shaak
Tiin, Saesee
Tikkes
Tills, Meena
Toora, Toonbuck
Tosh, Jann
Towani, Cindel
Towani, Mace
Treblanc, Romeo
Trebor, Coleman
Tyerell, Ratts
Typho, Captain
Tzizvvt
Umpass-stay
Unduli, Luminara
Vader, Darth
Valorum, Supreme Chancellor Finis
Vao, Mission
Veekan, Cebann
Veers, General Maximilian
Veld, Tru
Ventress, Asajj
Vergere
Vida, Ayy
Vos, Quinlan
Vosa, Komari
Wald
Warrick, Deej
Warrick, Wicket W.
Watto
We, Taun
Wesell, Zam
Williams, Lt. Antidar
Willy
Windu, Mace
Winter
Wuher
Xizor, Prince
Yaddle
Yavid, General
Yoda
Yomm, Auren
Yowza, Joh
Ysanna, Jem
Zaalbar
Zar, Fang
Zellock, Kleb
Zend, Salla
Zuckuss

And that's not all
The Universe is much much bigger. I don't even know all of it I bolded some of the cooler characters

 

[blu phoenix]

Re: star wars vs. lord of the rings

The LotR is the very definition of a trilogy. I mean, you could have it your opinion that the earth is flat, not round, but that doesn't change the 'facts'.


EDIT: Meh.. that came out alot more smart-assy than I wanted....

And LTH, you failed to mention the totally awsome Mouth of Sauron!

Mouth of Sauron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's a shame they didn't use him in the final cut of the movies, he looks awsome.

I have to admit that he annoyed me and I was sort of glad he wasn't in the final cut. Kudos to Aragorn for lopping off his head. He does look pretty cool, except for...well the mouth. I don't know why but I didn't like him all that much in the movies...although they did bring him to life from the books.

Does anyone like the theatrical better than the extended or vice versa?

 

[Walker]

Re: star wars vs. lord of the rings

No, Tsuyu, you are just as unsupported as I am. It is purely a matter of opinion whether or not the volumes of Lord of the Rings qualify as "a complete unit in itself." I believe that they do not, you believe they do. How can there be anything BUT opinion there? On the other hand,there is hard fact on the subject of the gemometry of the planet Earth.

To rephrase my views again, in hopes of insuring coherency many times over:
The Lord of the Rings is more like a novel published in serial, chapter by chapter; than like a trilogy, three stories that, while complete units in and of themselves, tell a wider story as well.

 

[Tsuyu]

Re: star wars vs. lord of the rings

It is not merely my "opinion" that it is a trilogy - it is a trilogy as it fits every aspect of the concept - just as a car is a car because it fits the concept of what defines a car as a car.

Now if one chooses to accept it as a trilogy or not is another matter, but my claims are definitely not "unsupported".

EDIT: I think we are arguing based on different versions here actually. Seems it was indeed not written as a trilogy, but it was published by some schemy publisher as such... man, my head hurts.

Never having heard of this, I assumed we were talking about the "default", which is the "trilogy"-set up of publishing it, which really can't be seen as anything but a trilogy.

Damn, now I want the six book version - would be interesting to see how it was supposed to be "divided"...

So the sum of it all... we are both correct, and at the same time, both wrong...

 

[Walker]

Re: star wars vs. lord of the rings

Six-Book, Three-Volume Diversion/Explanation

Um... no, I think you misunderstand. If you look at your copy of Fellowship of the Ring, right after the scene at the Ford, where Frodo is running from the Ringwraiths, aided by the elf-lord whose name I forget, there should be something saying "end of book 1" and "Beginning of Book 2". The books are within the volumes, and untitled.

I just grabbed the copy of Return of the King sitting on the shelf in my dad's office/spare bedroom/computer room. In it, Book V ends on page 187, just after the meeting before Morrannon and the... discussion with the Mouth of Sauron. Book VI begins on page 191, with Sam just inside the tower Cirith Ungol. Between the two there is a page blank except for "Book VI". Yeah, I had it wrong in the first paragraph there.

Resume "Trilogy," ah, "Discussion"

And yes-- by the definition of "trilogy" as anything published in three parts, or with two sequels or two prequels or a prequel and a sequel or anything with three parts, yeah, Lord of the Rings is a trilogy.

By the definition you posted, and my definition (which is basically identical to the one you posted), however, I don't think it's a trilogy. But whether it's a trilogy or not is open to debate by that definition, and that's by what I was debating.

Trilogy;

A literary composition, usually a novel or a play, written in three parts, each of which is a complete unit in itself.

You could also debate whether or not the Lord of the Rings qualifies as having been written in three parts. Yeah, it was published in three parts, but Tolkien worked on the world and the stories and its history and its myths for... well, I don't know how long, but pretty damn long. Maybe his whole life. So I don't know that he wrote it in three parts. Maybe in the six "Books", or maybe by chapters, or maybe, yes, in the three parts that ended up as Fellowhip of the Ring, The Two Towers, and Return of the King. I, for one, have no idea.

Semi-Apology

In case calling you "unsupported" sounded a bit insulting, I'm sorry. What I meant was that you saying that the each volume was a "complete unit in itself" was unsupported by any evidence, since completeness is a matter of opinion.

 

[Tsuyu]

Re: star wars vs. lord of the rings

He actually wrote it as one big book, I've learnt. Or maybe as six. Perhaps he didn't know wether to release it as one big book, or if it was too big for even a "big book" and split it into six parts.

His publisher however, made the choice to publish it as a trilogy.... Sneaky-sneaky.

 

[Walker]

Re: star wars vs. lord of the rings

Yeah... but my guess is written in one huge mass. It just seems too cohesive to have been written piece by piece. And yes, that I can agree on-- it is published in three parts, so it is a trilogy... unless you start getting screwy and count The Hobbit, in which case it's a tetralogy. I still can't agree on saying that it's a trilogy by the definition of trilogy.

On the other hand, I can agree wholeheartedly that The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit (hereafter known as the tetralogy of Bagginses, just to confuse people [grin]) kicks the butt belonging to Star Wars. I mean, yeah, Star Wars is bigger and the books and movies are very good. But when I read Star Wars books I don't get the same feelings of pure joy I do when reading the Tetralogy of Bagginses, or at least Lord of the Rings,

That one story is so well written... it's just incredible. I LOVE Lord of the Rings. The Star Wars books... yeah, lots of them are good (especially those by Timothy Zahn, and to a lesser degree Kevin J. Anderson and Rebecca Moesta), and some are very good, but so many of them plain and simple suck that... well, it just balances out.

The movies are about equal in my view. Nothing to get excited about in the Lord of the Rings movies save that they ARE Lord of the Rings, and in the case of I-III... well, they were entertaining, but the fact that they did IV-VI first kinda detracted from my enjoyment. I already knew that certain things would happen. And I don't remember IV-VI all that well, so I don't have much of an opinion. Keep meaning to grab the VHS-es sitting in our TV cabinet and watch them, but haven't gotten around to it.