Any debaters out there?

[HodgePodge]

Re: Any debaters out there?

Yes, but the stupidity topic is a lot more opinionated than most, because how stupid is stupid? How is stupidity judged? There are certain questions within the topic that make it kind of hard to have a good debate.

 

[Devalion]

Re: Any debaters out there?

Darwinism ftw. Some levels of stupidity can only exist for so long.

 

[HodgePodge]

Re: Any debaters out there?

So if Fable Freak doesn't show up, doees any one else wanna debate?

 

[Albion Knight]

Re: Any debaters out there?

Yay! Okay Here's the topic:
: The United Nations' obligation to protect global human rights ought to be valued above its obligation to respect national sovereignty.
Rules: We will each provide two main points. I will be against, you will be for. My two points are:
1.The United Nations was not created for the purpose of protecting human rights actively, and therefore is not obligated to protect or defend actively
2.
The United Nations does not have it within its power to protect global human rights.
You may use any two points that you wish, but must be able to elaborate, and provide both sources and evidence upon request. BEGIN! But we'lll need a judge...

I'll take up the debate why not

Point 1: An organizations original purpose need not be it's sole purpose. Indeed it is often the case that the original purpose of an organization gets supplanted or surpassed by another purpose.

Point 2: The inability to ultimately succeed in an endeavor to the highest ideological extent does not preclude that the endeavor should not be undertaken. We endeavor to live after all and we know that, that will ultimately lead to failure.

On the whole America (USA) is stupid thing: It might be that more is heard from the full spectrum of the population. Free speech has lead to more speech. I know that other countries have free speech but the US is, to put it mildly, an enthusiastic supporter of that right. In other words we talk a lot . To use a sports analogy the more shots you take the more you miss but the more you make as well. I guess what I'm saying is that we might go through a lot of crappy ideas but perhaps we come up with more brilliant ideas as well as more dumb ones. I have no statistics on it either way.

 

[Hexadecimal]

Re: Any debaters out there?

While the Universal Declaration of Human Rights leaves little room for the United Nations but to uphold human rights, should it come to upholding one or the other, National Sovereignty should be the first priority.

1. The United Nations is a culturally diverse organization. To function properly it must embrace some degree of cultural relativism. To that end, were human rights to be given free reign over another nation's Sovereingty, this could undermine that culture's way of life and even it's very existance. Of those cultural practices removed due to violating human rights, who among the U.N. would undertake to replace them? Would this nation be left culturally bereft? Or at the whims of another nation to determine it's culture? Such acts of cultural rape are not what the United Nations was created for.

2. Any nation which is violating human rights so severely as to warrant having their Sovereignty infringed upon, should not have been allowed to join. Any nation which is not a member of the United Nations, and is therefore not a signature on the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, is not bound by this document, nor are they compelled to obey the whims of those Nations that are. To that end, the United Nations has the responsability only to defend that nation's sovereignty in the interests of preventing warfare and loss of life, not infringing upon the practices it as a Sovereign Nation has a right to practice.

 

[LionHeadTex]

Re: Any debaters out there?

Time to save this thread(probably not)

It's not that America is stupid as a whole. Some of us, truly brave and intelligent of life, consist in America. Our government overall isn't the same. Some of us come to America for a better outcome. Some stay because they think life will be different. Some are idiots. Say Dick Cheney, who when one guy was talking in a conference..he said,"everyone, shut the **** up!"...or George W.

But Americans, I know how you feel but don't be surprised that people think we're stupid. We've made alot of mistakes in the past.

And it's still happening. News channels are talking about Paris Hilton rather than the g8 conference (where all the rich and powerful nations talk about the future, and very important issues) we're also scarcely informed. As productive as our media is, they lie to us alot. The government lies to us alot. And I feel we need to know more about what's happening.

Say the Mexicans. Stop talking about the borders, government. We need to look outside the small box. We need to talk to the Mexican government and go,"Hey guys, whatever the problem is with your country that's making people come here, we need to fix it!"

We also need to stop alot of things. Yes, I know alot of us like shows like South Park...but do we really need to take that? Alot of it is racism, and we should be using that time being informed...and talking about alot of more important things in life. You might say,"Racism still exists?"
There's still the KKK, and Neo-nazis. So yea.

Ok America, shut up about the war. Take those troops out and shut the trapper, I don't care about the terrorists...we're in their terrotory because of oil. And yes, that makes sense if you know what's going on.

what about Global Warming?It shouldn't even be called that. It should be called,"Oh my god, we're all gonna die if we don't stop wasting oil on these hummers and ****...what the ****" (it would have to be abbreviated....omgwagdiwdswoothaswtf?)

And shut up about Paris Hilton and about that pop crap. It doesn't make us any smarter, just makes our brains melt faster than tar. Did you know they showed the special about Anna Nicole Smith longer than Katrina on the news? Yep.

Oh yea, and gay marriage. Sorry christians, but deal with it. If these people are serving the devil, wouldn't they have horns? So..yea good job trying to defend yourself.

So for all you people who don't live in America, that's what we need to fix.

Just my opinion, but think about it.

 

[Angel]

Re: Any debaters out there?

t.Oh yea, and gay marriage. Sorry christians, but deal with it. If these people are serving the devil, wouldn't they have horns? So..yea good job trying to defend yourself.

Not specific to America, you know - a lot of people in a lot of other countries disagree with gay marriage too. I know I do - and I think there are only a very few people in the Christian sector who believe gay people are serving the devil and therefore they clearly haven't read the book they say they follow and are in the minority. Also known as nutjobs ^_^.

And I have yet to meet a satanist with horns...in my experience they are from all walks of life and they don't tend to go around looking like a theatrical version of the Devil...

 

[Tsuyu]

Re: Any debaters out there?

And I have yet to meet a satanist with horns...in my experience they are from all walks of life and they don't tend to go around looking like a theatrical version of the Devil...

*Checks forehead* Nah... not yet, atleast. Satanism, veeeery different from devil worship mind you has nothing to do with the christian devil because he doesn't exist to us. The image given to us in movies and stuff called "Satanism" is actually devil worship, where someone chooses to worship the bad guy in christianity.

Now this thread is starting to get interesting to me. I've had this "talk" with my parents millions of times.

Though horns would be awsome - I would scare soooo many people!

As for gay marrige - I don't care who people prefer to sleep with. As long as you are not hurting anyone I am all for people discovering their sexuallity and acting it out - in fact, I admire people who do and don't care for what other people think in this mad world of ours.

Marrige itself is a silly thing to me, with all the christianity that comes with it. If it weren't for my familiy and probably my future wife wanting one, I couldn't care less. However, for some reason this christian ritual has become something that has a huge effect on our laws and other stuff, which I disagree with - religion should not have any power there.

I say screw marrige, gay people! You don't need it, you can live a happy life without it.

 

[Hexadecimal]

Re: Any debaters out there?

*Checks forehead* Nah... not yet, atleast. Satanism, veeeery different from devil worship mind you has nothing to do with the christian devil because he doesn't exist to us. The image given to us in movies and stuff called "Satanism" is actually devil worship, where someone chooses to worship the bad guy in christianity.

thank you...
I've had far too many people get all confused and not tell the difference...
Satan means Adversary... so in Christianity, the Adversary is clearly the Devil...
however, for Satanists, who do not believe in the Christian god, Satan has nothing to do with the Christian Devil...
Devil worshippers are a form of Christians... since they believe in the Christian God and its mythology, they just follow the other side of it... They are NOT Satanists

I think anyone should be with anyone they want (consenting adults only) and marry anyone they want and that's that. I understand if religious groups do not feel comfortable marrying individuals if it goes against that religion, but not everyone is religious and neither is every marriage... there are alternatives to a religious wedding... every individual should have, and does have in Canada I might add, the right to a Civil Service recognized by their government... they hold the same Citizenship and pay the same taxes and therefor deserve access to the same services... anything less is not democracy, and is not equality... it becomes a state where "everyone is equal , but some are more equal than others", and that's just disgusting...

 

[Angel]

Re: Any debaters out there?

Devil worshippers are a form of Christians... since they believe in the Christian God and its mythology, they just follow the other side of it... They are NOT Satanists

No they are not a form of Christian - how can they be? They go against everything Christianity stands for. I believe there is a devil but that does not make me a form of devil worshipper, now does it? The whole concept makes my skin crawl and although I know some will be offended by this, anything to do with satanism and devil worshipping of any kind is abhorrent to me and is also nothing to be taken lightly.

Cue the Christian bashing, if you like (and I expect you all will), but I shall now bow out of this thread so as not to add further fuel to the argument.

 

[Hexadecimal]

Re: Any debaters out there?

No they are not a form of Christian - how can they be? They go against everything Christianity stands for. I believe there is a devil but that does not make me a form of devil worshipper, now does it? The whole concept makes my skin crawl and although I know some will be offended by this, anything to do with satanism and devil worshipping of any kind is abhorrent to me and is also nothing to be taken lightly.
.

ok.... that's not even remotely what I said...
I never said they followed Christ... I said they believe in him...
I never said you worshipped the Devil, you just believe in him...

and Satanism and Devil Worship have nothing to do with each other...
I seriously resent them being lumped together in such a fashion when they are not similar in any way shape or form, and I also resent my religious views being referred to as "abhorrent"... I respect your right to your views. why can't you respect mine?

 

[Tsuyu]

Re: Any debaters out there?

No they are not a form of Christian - how can they be? They go against everything Christianity stands for. I believe there is a devil but that does not make me a form of devil worshipper, now does it? The whole concept makes my skin crawl and although I know some will be offended by this, anything to do with satanism and devil worshipping of any kind is abhorrent to me and is also nothing to be taken lightly.

Cue the Christian bashing, if you like (and I expect you all will), but I shall now bow out of this thread so as not to add further fuel to the argument.

There has been no "christian bashing" my dear. We are simply reasoning that they could not worship the christian creature, "The Devil", without having ties to Christianity. So one could say they are a sub-religion or something that has choocesn to worship "The Bad Guy" in christianity.

There is a clear difference between believing there is a Devil and worshipping said Devil, so of course Christians are not devil worshippers.
(I acknowledge the fact Adolf Hitler did exist - that doesn't make a a hardcore Nazi punk)

And uhm... please don't mention satanism and devil worship in the same sentence like that... it is not the same.

In christianity things like eating alot of food (gluttony) and having alot of sex are classes as "bad things", even "sins"(it'll send you to hell!), Satanism accepts these things as human nature (sex is pleasurable and one of our strongest urges, to re-produce and why not eat lots of that food you like?) and encourages you to, basicly, do what you want and feel good about it.

It really, really, really isn't about a bunch of guys in black robes sacrificing various cuddly animals babies to "Satan".

 

[droded]

Re: Any debaters out there?

I suggest closing... This is creating alot of conflict.

 

[Dark Drakan]

Re: Any debaters out there?

I suggest closing... This is creating alot of conflict.

The staff members are the ones involved in the debate wouldnt you think one would have closed it if they had thought the need for it? It is their decision afterall...

 

[droded]

Re: Any debaters out there?

It is creating conflict amoung the staff members is partly what I said..

 

[Dark Drakan]

Re: Any debaters out there?

It is creating conflict amoung the staff members is partly what I said..

Merely a difference in opinion as if it got out of hand it would be closed and agree to disagree.

 

[Tsuyu]

Re: Any debaters out there?

I suggest closing... This is creating alot of conflict.

Well, it is an debate thread..


Debate;

argue with one another; "We debated the question of abortion"; "John debated Mary"
consider: think about carefully; weigh; "They considered the possibility of a strike"; "Turn the proposal over in your mind"
argument: a discussion in which reasons are advanced for and against some proposition or proposal; "the argument over foreign aid goes on and on"
discuss the pros and cons of an issue
the formal presentation of and opposition to a stated proposition (usually followed by a vote)
argue: have an argument about something

And so far I've seen no insults, personal attacks or anything that'd warrant a closing.

 

[droded]

Re: Any debaters out there?

I mean it would disrupt the gentle harmony on this forum...>.<

 

[Dark Drakan]

Re: Any debaters out there?

I mean it would disrupt the gentle harmony on this forum...>.<

The day i see any such thing as gentle harmony it will be quickly burned and stamped on :lol: =]

 

[droded]

Re: Any debaters out there?

Sorry.. I was just trying to keep the peace.