Now now, calm down my good man. I just wanted to understand what perspective you were coming from, guess we can just drop it and instead go for some chamomile tea.
I pray for you, America.
- Thread starter Tsuyu
- Start date
Cheez I suggest you take a good hard look at the muslim countries. They are not the western world. Your belief that Islam will fade away is incorrect. The comparison just doesn't work. Look at Egypt: they just got free elections and what did they do?
Hand their newfound freedom over to a bunch of islamofacists! Their slogan is very charming: "God is our objective; the Quran is our constitution, the Prophet is our leader; Jihad is our way; and death for the sake of God is the highest of our aspirations.".
Delightful.
The influence Islam has in these countries is nothing short of Christianity in Europe during the dark ages.
Hand their newfound freedom over to a bunch of islamofacists! Their slogan is very charming: "God is our objective; the Quran is our constitution, the Prophet is our leader; Jihad is our way; and death for the sake of God is the highest of our aspirations.".
Delightful.
The influence Islam has in these countries is nothing short of Christianity in Europe during the dark ages.
Precisely. They are not the western world and therefore the examples you presented don't poke any holes in what I said.
If I'm being unclear, I'm saying that Muslims that come into western society will conform to it, not change it. I used present-day descendants of the other great monotheisms as examples of this. My neighbor is a Catholic and I don't expect he honestly thinks that when I die I'll face eternal damnation. I also am very proud to say that I've never stoned a girl for having premarital sex.
That being said, Muslim immigrants may be more likely to do one of the things I mentioned above, but they are not a threat to my very way of life. The only real threat goes "boom."
You just keep your eyes closed and your fingers firmly planted in your ears then. That way you'll not have to hear or see the Swedish women raped and mutilated by Muslim immigrants on a daily basis. Or the Jews in Malmö who are afraid to leave their homes because, you guessed it, Muslim immigrants are bringing their trademark brand of Jew-hatred to Sweden. Or the noise of the construction of that new mosque that the Saudi-funded Muslim "community leaders" wants to build and your government was very eager to both grant them land and pay for, as to not cause offense.
*sigh* Look, I don't know if you're American or not, but given the time at which you reply I assume you are. USA doesn't have the same problem with Islam as European countries. Plus the whole deal with America being built on immigration - it is only natural for us not to see eye to eye on this one.
You say that Muslim immigrants adapt and intergrate into their host country; they don't. To believe so is to close your eyes to reality here in Sweden. Even worse they want the host country to adapt to them. Which we do thanks to P.C politicans without spines and balls - all at the expense of the Swedish people.
*sigh* Look, I don't know if you're American or not, but given the time at which you reply I assume you are. USA doesn't have the same problem with Islam as European countries. Plus the whole deal with America being built on immigration - it is only natural for us not to see eye to eye on this one.
You say that Muslim immigrants adapt and intergrate into their host country; they don't. To believe so is to close your eyes to reality here in Sweden. Even worse they want the host country to adapt to them. Which we do thanks to P.C politicans without spines and balls - all at the expense of the Swedish people.
My cousin says the same "remain in ignorance," stuff when he's trying to convince me that the neo-nazi movement will bring a second holocaust on US soil. Yes, Tsuyu, I'm from the USA. I'm also Jewish by birth and was raised somewhat religiously. My opinions on religious violence aside, I'm not going to act or think like every single Muslim who moves here is as rotten as the rest of them. It's not true. TONS of Muslims come to the US for a proper education. I know because my mom would always invite them over for dinner on the holidays. My point is that even if there is truth in how you're basing this,an absolutist mindset isn't going to land you anything but paranoia.
I'm sorry that Sweden's seeing violence from a bunch of ungrateful pricks who can't appreciate that they're contradicting what made your country seem worth living in to them in the first place. I only hope that your newfound strong opinions on this religion aren't being formed as an emotional response. It's a dangerous road to go down if that is the case.
I'm saying they do over the course of generations. The evidence for this claim is in my favor at this point, since I haven't been killed in a pogrom by any of my neighbors yet. They're fresh off the boat in Sweden, so it's hard to see at this point, but they will naturally assimilate and give birth to nice little Swedes who barely speak a word of Arabic.
Fair enough. Is this the part where we agree to disagree?
Kind of have to agree with Tsuyu on this one
In Merrie Olde Englande they've done things like request 'Christmas' is changed to 'Winter Holidays' to make it more inclusive, even say that England has to change to be a Muslim country in some extreme instances. I'm not generalising all muslims, but there are a chunk of them who are, basically, arseholes.
In Merrie Olde Englande they've done things like request 'Christmas' is changed to 'Winter Holidays' to make it more inclusive, even say that England has to change to be a Muslim country in some extreme instances. I'm not generalising all muslims, but there are a chunk of them who are, basically, arseholes.
I honestly have no idea why that would even be a problem. Considering that most people that celebrate Christmas in the UK aren't even Christians, and by that I mean people who "dunt believe in god lul". There's more religions in the UK than just Christianity and Islam. Why make other religions feel completely ostracised during that one time of the year? And before anyone says "Well, no one thinks about how Christians feel about other religion's holidays, so why should we care how other religions feel about ours?" Christmas is ****in' EVERYWHERE during that time of year; it's a highly commercial holiday. Fair enough if they don't believe in it, then maybe they wouldn't care. But the Jewish holiday of Hanukkah takes place around the same time of year, and it just gets completely over-shadowed by Christmas.
And the idea that the UK has ever been suggested as changing to be a Muslim country is fffff. Multiculturalism is a good thing at the end of the day. You know what the BNP is right? Y'know "Britain for the British." Well, apparently a British-Asian person isn't British enough.
Muslim extremists are bad, yes. But they're not the only people to ever terrorize society, for example, the IRA. And I don't think I've heard people complaining about us celebrating St. Patrick's Day. That's another form of multiculturalism ya know.
I'm pretty sure Hanukkah overshadows Christmas in Israel, as it does in Jewish communities in our countries. I think they can cherish and celebrate it just fine as it is. Well, maybe not in Malmö.
It is all relative. There doesn't need to be any form of liberal guilty for focusing more on a holiday native to your country. There is no need to include other holidays, because they will still be celebrated by the people who hold them dear, regardless. You can make mention of them as a nice gesture if you wish, and I don't mind them getting some more attention - but you should not have to dilute your own culture to accommodate other cultures.
Multiculturalism is a good thing in theory; peace, love and understanding and all that. Unfortunately it doesn't quite work in practice because despite what those p.c dhimmis believe, you can't just bunch a group of cultures together and expect them all to just hold hand and sing all day long. Stuff like Islam just isn't compatible with the civilized world.
It is all relative. There doesn't need to be any form of liberal guilty for focusing more on a holiday native to your country. There is no need to include other holidays, because they will still be celebrated by the people who hold them dear, regardless. You can make mention of them as a nice gesture if you wish, and I don't mind them getting some more attention - but you should not have to dilute your own culture to accommodate other cultures.
Multiculturalism is a good thing in theory; peace, love and understanding and all that. Unfortunately it doesn't quite work in practice because despite what those p.c dhimmis believe, you can't just bunch a group of cultures together and expect them all to just hold hand and sing all day long. Stuff like Islam just isn't compatible with the civilized world.
I was talking specifically about the UK, remember. The UK is already, without anyone helping it along or trying to make it so, a multicultural country. And I see nothing wrong with treating it as such. I don't feel guilty, what-so-ever, it just seems reasonably logical.
Your idea that Islam isn't compatible with the civilised world, is ridiculous. There are plenty civilised Muslims. None of this has anything to do with being P.C, or "keeping your eyes closed and your fingers firmly planted in your ears". The fact that you keep over-generalising everything is almost baffling to a point where I want to rip my eyebrows out. And I can't help feeling you wouldn't be so callous if there was a Muslim on the boards.
Multiculturalism doesn't just apply to religious groups, it applies to everything. How would you honestly feel if I made a thread because I was ****ed off with all the Swedes in my town, waving their culture in my face? It would be honestly ridiculous no? Even the idea is silly. I'm honestly trying my hardest to not sound like a total hippy here, for fear that you might mock me and totally discard anything I have to say. And I can understand and almost sympathise with how you feel. But considering the UK is in a similar situation, and IDGAF - I can't agree with your views.
Also, I'm so glad I finally gave in to replying to this thread. And I was trying so hard not to.
I'm not agaisnt multiculturalism, of course, it's a good thing. I'm also not racist, I'm not one of these anti-theists, I guess I'm a dissmissive agnostic if that exists.
My point is that England is, despite the actual religions of the people who inhabit it, a Christian country, so the small majority of Muslims that want it to become a Muslim country are out of place, as well as the fact them wanting to rename Christmas. Everyone knows it by Christmas, and besides, all the culture is around it, I mean Santa doesn't come on Haunaka...
The UK isn't a Christian country, really. And it's not Muslims that want Christmas renamed at all, it's the people that Tsuyu seems pretty determined to criticise.
Santa may not come on Hanukkah, but children still receive presents. Which is actually a relatively new thing. Jewish children couldn't understand why their friends got presents and they didn't. The Jewish faith changed how they celebrate an important holiday just to allow their children to enjoy it, and feel as equal as their peers.
As most European countries, it is culturally Christian. Which is why we have Christmas and not Hanukkah.
Do you know anything about Islam, Queen? It pretty much deserves to be criticised. Essentially every aspect of it is either laughable or terrifying. For example their view of the perfect marriage is that between a 40-something warlord and a 9-years old girl. They consider it the perfect union, blessed by god. Which is why you have Muslims selling away their pre-pubescent daughters. Don't get me wrong, I'm not down with any religion, but Islam just rustles my jimmies like no other.
You don't think Christian children living in Israel get Hanukkah presents "just to fit in", too? As said, it is all relative.
I have to agree with cheez & queen on this whole thing, to generalize that Muslim people can't get along and are all bad is utterly ridiculous and ironically ignorant. You did this exact same thing with Christians, believing that deep down all of them wish to see you burn in eternal hellfire which was pretty silly... Sharon is proof of that. There's a Muslim family that lives on the end of the street here for almost 30 years now, never caused trouble for anyone and have managed to settle into the American culture just fine.
Point being, there are people who do bad things everywhere regardless the race, gender, and religion. Why let a portion of bad apples be the representation for the entire bunch?
Point being, there are people who do bad things everywhere regardless the race, gender, and religion. Why let a portion of bad apples be the representation for the entire bunch?
You're all assuming I have something against people when my beef really is with the ideology they follow. Muslims can get along with people, but Islam can't. As long as there are people who continue to follow the batshit crazy parts of Islam (and indeed Christianity) to negative impact on fellow humans around them I will continue to oppose it. And there are entire countries worth of fanatics that do. Entire countries. And some of these people come to Sweden.
Read the Quran. (or at least google it)
Also, I am pretty sure that discussion ended with Sharon admitting to her beliefs that I will, indeed, burn, although regrettable on her part.
Read the Quran. (or at least google it)
Also, I am pretty sure that discussion ended with Sharon admitting to her beliefs that I will, indeed, burn, although regrettable on her part.
Coming from someone who lives in the UK, I personally view it as a multicultural, and not a definitively Christian society.
Y'know, Tsuyu, this is exactly why I didn't want to reply to this thread, because of attitude like the one you've just displayed. Disagreeing with you =/= complete ignorance on the subject. And I'm truly disappointed you feel that way. In fact most of your counter-arguments have been accusing people of sticking their fingers in their ears and being completely ignorant of everything going on around them. It's on bad form, really, when all you're doing is over-generalising everything. Allowing bad apples to spoil the bunch, and I never took you as one to be so impressionable.
I only brought that up as a
That's not what I'm saying. I'm wondering how you can keep such a calm attitude if you do know about the batshit crazy aspects of Islam. To me that's unthinkable. As for the bad apples analogy; it isn't a few bad apples as much as it is the apple box they come in that is spoiled.
It just goes to show that even on some forums we cant all get along with our religious/cultural differences.
Imagine the REAL world, Yayyyyy.
Extremists are bad, no matter what. Except Kayakers, lolz
Imagine the REAL world, Yayyyyy.
Extremists are bad, no matter what. Except Kayakers, lolz
The sad part is that we're pretty much the same or really close when it comes to cultural cliques.
Sorry to bust your chops but we officially count as a Christian country.
'Church Of England' set up by King Henry 8th and all that.
But still, all I'm saying is, if Muslims come to England, they shouldn't expect it to reform to their exact needs. Nor am I saying that every Muslim wants this, all I'm saying is that the small majority that do are in the wrong.
Very tactful way to completely avoid his question. Also, it doesn't matter how small of a minority they are, they commit atrocities and justify atrocities with the Islamic faith which in itself is an incredibly dangerous thing. Not to mention they're actively suppressing progression and basic human rights for their beliefs.
He's displayed his evidence, you've displayed nearly nothing, it's on you to make a constructive argument based on that evidence or you need not apply. Read the Quran and stop being so passive, take responsibility for the world around you.