I pray for you, America.

[Angel]

I'm a massive racist - I friggin' hated the 1200 metres at school...

Just wanted to say that in the UK, the PC brigade is pretty much white, middle-class people and not your average every day muslim. The vast majority of muslims couldn't give a toss about the name of Christmas or whether schools celebrate Harvest Festival or say prayers at assembly. We have nobheads like Abu Hamza still floating about but he makes for good material for our comedians so I guess it kind of balances out...

Oh and the church of England? OLOLOLOLOL! That was only constructed to allow Mr. Bang 'em and hang 'em to get divorced and not a whole lot more, really. Which is why it's such a weak-willed denomination today (but that's a whole 'nother conversation). England has not always been Christian as we all know and I do not think it will remain as such officially for much longer. The Queen is supposed to be the defender of the faith, as written in the declarations of the coronation that all monarchs preceding her have promised. She's done a pretty crappy job at it so that alone is a strong indicator to me that we're pretty much heading the way of France and going secular if nothing else. If Charles ever gets the throne, he has already said he will be amending the coronation to say "defender of the faiths" in an attempt to embrace everyone and everything. Don't ask me how that would work out...could get interesting...

The Holy Coconut, people. It's the only way.

 

[Tsuyu]

Just wanted to say that in the UK, the PC brigade is pretty much white, middle-class people and not your average every day muslim. The vast majority of muslims couldn't give a toss about the name of Christmas or whether schools celebrate Harvest Festival or say prayers at assembly.

That's pretty much standard everywhere.

The Queen is supposed to be the defender of the faith, as written in the declarations of the coronation that all monarchs preceding her have promised.

I've got to admit, I thought Queenofdisco there for a moment....

 

[HobbeBrain]

The vast majority of muslims couldn't give a toss about the name of Christmas or whether schools celebrate Harvest Festival or say prayers at assembly. We have nobheads like Abu Hamza still floating about but he makes for good material for our comedians so I guess it kind of balances out...

This is what I meant, most muslims don't care about changing the names of holidays or anything but there are a small bunch of ones who do!!

 

[TRA Rotid]

Very tactful way to completely avoid his question. Also, it doesn't matter how small of a minority they are, they commit atrocities and justify atrocities with the Islamic faith which in itself is an incredibly dangerous thing. Not to mention they're actively suppressing progression and basic human rights for their beliefs.

He's displayed his evidence, you've displayed nearly nothing, it's on you to make a constructive argument based on that evidence or you need not apply. Read the Quran and stop being so passive, take responsibility for the world around you.

You're essentially saying exactly what Queen wanted to avoid: read the Quran and you'll be thinking like me.

 

[Tsuyu]

Well, to be honest, what better way to gain understanding is it? You know that the media twists and turns Islam into the fabled "Religion of peace" and any form of critique against Islam is a big no-no.

The "perfect marriage" of a 40-50 warlord and a 9 year old girl(actually she was younger: he just didn't have intercourse with her until she was 9). The goal of conquest and subjugation of the rest of the world. The misogyny and homophobia. And lets not forget the hatred towards Jews and Christians.

Everything that makes Islam ever-so colourful. You have to remember that

a. The Quran is the indisputable world of Allah - this applies to all Muslims.

b. Muhammed, the paedophile warlord, is the Prophet of Allah and the most perfect human being ever to have lived - this also applies so all Muslims.

 

[Noctus]

You're essentially saying exactly what Queen wanted to avoid: read the Quran and you'll be thinking like me.

And how is that wrong? If she were to read the Quran and still disagree at least she'd have a fair basis for her point.

This is what I meant, most muslims don't care about changing the names of holidays or anything but there are a small bunch of ones who do!!

Hahaha, if you ask the majority of Muslims "Do you think that your children should be exposed to and have to abide by Christian celebrations as part of school?" most would say no and that the name should be changed. Trust me. It's all about how you phrase the question.

 

[TRA Rotid]

And how is that wrong? If she were to read the Quran and still disagree at least she'd have a fair basis for her point.

The whole "point" is that not all people are their religion. The exact same thing we had in the Christan thread not so long ago. I haven't joined this discussion because I'd essentially repeat myself and I don't think I want to do that. The previous argument resulted in Angel and Gikoku, both Christans (actually secretly agnostic), voicing their opinion on the matter and after that Tsuyu kinda backed off. Now...

And I can't help feeling you wouldn't be so callous if there was a Muslim on the boards.

Edit: edited first sentence to what it was supposed to be

 

[Gikoku]

The whole "point" is that people aren't their religion. The exact same thing we had in the Christan thread not so long ago. I haven't joined this discussion because I'd essentially repeat myself and I don't think I want to do that. The previous argument resulted in Angel and Gikoku, both Christans, voicing their opinion on the matter and after that Tsuyu kinda backed off. Now...

I'm agnostic (it's my family that's Christian).

 

[Tsuyu]

The whole "point" is that people aren't their religion. The exact same thing we had in the Christan thread not so long ago. I haven't joined this discussion because I'd essentially repeat myself and I don't think I want to do that. The previous argument resulted in Angel and Gikoku, both Christans, voicing their opinion on the matter and after that Tsuyu kinda backed off. Now...

Take a look at the Muslim world i.e Saudi Arabia or Iran.

Then take a look at what these people do when imported by our governments into our countries. For one thing they rape because their views on women is ****.

Then tell me that "people aren't their religion". These people "are their religion" so much that no Danish parody cartoonist could make them look any worse.

 

[TRA Rotid]

I've been through this already, I was merely elaborating other's viewpoint to Noctus.

 

[Tsuyu]

Yeah, I thought you'd say that.

 

[TRA Rotid]

Of course, I already said it in my previous post.

 

[Noctus]

The whole "point" is that not all people are their religion.

...What does any of that have to do with anything I said? I'm telling her to wisen up on her subjects before commenting, and to take responsibility for when people do unspeakable things, and muslims actively partake in unspeakable things in the name of their God, and the Quran dictates that they should. If you can't take part in an argument without essentially saying you don't want to hear opposing evidence, which is almost exactly what she's saying, what on earth is she doing here?

Also, I'm not even biased, just about every religion has its disgusting side but it has largely moved on from it. Islam has not.

 

[Tsuyu]

Also, I'm not even biased, just about every religion has its disgusting side but it has largely moved on from it. Islam has not.

Agreed.

I'll give Christianity this: at least they've stopped executing people for witchcraft.

 

[Quistrix]

Ok, so, I promised myself I would simply ignore everything that's been said to and about me mostly because -

1. I have a terrible way of making things worse no matter how hard I try not to.
2. Because I'm lazy.

I may have countered Tsuyu in a defensive way and I apologise for this but it was because what I didn't want to happen, happened - I got myself into an argument and it was being assumed I only thought how I did because I was ignorant on the subject.

One thing I do know, which applies to one of Tsuyu's points is that Muslims have an atrocious attitude to women. And specifically in this case, how Muslim women are required to dress. In the Quran women are advised to cover their breasts and put on their outer garments in a way that enables them to avoid harassment. And to avoid drawing attention to their beauty. The way that Muslim women dress is a requirement born from the wishes of Muslim men themselves and not the Quran. The Quran simply left it open to interpretation. That aside is the only thing that people commonly get mixed up, aside from the dress code, the Quran truly does have a ****ty view on women. Being that I'm not a feminist, I mostly have a problem with this from a neutral standing point.

The Bible too is pretty unfavourable to women, though the way in which Christians have interpreted these things and taken them into practise is quite different to that of Muslims and their Quran. Christianity isn't great though, the Bible(or specifically Christianity itself) also has unfair views on homosexuals, as we all know and these views are still put into practice today, influencing how people view homosexuality as a whole.

Speaking personally, I have Muslim neighbours who are kind and always happy to say hello in passing with the most genuine smiles you would ever see. My Grandfather, a Catholic man, back in his glory days worked in Saudi Arabia, making many Islamic friends, even teaching some of them to swim. And my Grandfather describes his time there as the truly best time of his life. Grouped with these things, I can still remember coming home from school on 9/11, and on every TV channel was news coverage of the planes flying into the buildings, me being truly horrified and confused about what I was watching. And having my mum explain that it was because of Islamic terrorists.

And even having that memory and all the knowledge of the terrible sides to Muslim society, I still have my neighbours and I still have my Grandfather's account, and I also have my open mind and kind heart. So, I cannot agree with Tsuyu.

Now that I've satisfied those who wanted this from me, I'm leaving this thread. I'm disappointed in myself for caving in once more, and in others in this thread that seem determined that if I didn't show complete evidence, I had no right to be here.

But I always seem to forget that internet is srs bsns.

 

[Tsuyu]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: there might be moderate Muslims but there is no modetate Islam. I'm not one for advocating rounding up Muslims and cracking skulls. I've nothing against Muslims(indeed many do truly want to get away from places like Iran and happily adapt) like your neighbours; I just don't want my country openly and fully embracing the barbaric and hateful ideology that is the religion of peace.

As for Saudi Arabia: money talks. They are lucky that they can dig money straight outta the ground. They do need the Western world to buy their oil. So while they might wage Jihad on us, they are not below sucking up to our businessmen. The world you grandad saw was probably a lot different than reality. Also, back in the good old days Saudi Arabia wasn't as bad as it is now. It has taken a turn for the worse these last twenty-thirty years with more and more extremists rising to power. See wahabbism.

 

[Noctus]

Tsuyu mirrors my views, I'd respond more constructively but there's very little I can add to that.

 

[HobbeBrain]

Hahaha, if you ask the majority of Muslims "Do you think that your children should be exposed to and have to abide by Christian celebrations as part of school?" most would say no and that the name should be changed. Trust me. It's all about how you phrase the question.

True, but then I guess they should have to take part in the church performances that some school do or anything, but they shouldn't expect it to be changed, because, as I've said, it's a Christian country so Christian rules apply.

 

[Angel]

*prepares to burn witches*

Wait, we don't do that any more?

Sad face...

 

[Noctus]

True, but then I guess they should have to take part in the church performances that some school do or anything, but they shouldn't expect it to be changed, because, as I've said, it's a Christian country so Christian rules apply.

As I said, you can make anyone say anything you want if you phrase the question right.