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Reaver - Discuss

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Reaver is one of the best damn characters of any video game I have ever seen. His sarcasm and sense of humor are always a thrill, and to be honest, without him Fable would be terribly bland. Logan lost all his charm as an antagonist when you find out why he was doing what he was doing, and the darkness never was a big enough threat for you to care anyways. Oh, and in Fable 2 he was the only Hero who could make me turn my volume up when I was traveling with Hammer. Seriously, that chick would NOT shut up! I wish LH would have given us the option to kill her at the end of the game, since we weren't going to see her again anyways.
 
Bluedrake said:
Seriously? Killing artists because he is dissatisfied with their work, stealing the youths of countless people to maintain his, destroying Oakvale, selling out the hero to Lucien, having people slaughtered in his private arena for sport, enslaving children... What more does he need to do to qualify as evil?
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Yeah, those are pretty gruesome acts, but I can't still label him as evil. He's dancing on the line, that's for sure, but in the end he doesn't do it because it's wrong, he does it because it gets results. He wants eternal youth, he has a to kill a few kids for it. He wouldn't kill kids for kicks. Selling out the hero, that benefited him too. As for enslaving children, he pointed out they were cheap labour, and kept them off the streets.

In short, he doesn't do bad things for fun, he does it because it benefits him. If a good act were to work in his favour, I bet he'd go for it.
 
Aruu said:
Yeah, those are pretty gruesome acts, but I can't still label him as evil. He's dancing on the line, that's for sure, but in the end he doesn't do it because it's wrong, he does it because it gets results. He wants eternal youth, he has a to kill a few kids for it. He wouldn't kill kids for kicks. Selling out the hero, that benefited him too. As for enslaving children, he pointed out they were cheap labour, and kept them off the streets.

In short, he doesn't do bad things for fun, he does it because it benefits him. If a good act were to work in his favour, I bet he'd go for it.
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Well, if you define evil as doing terrible things for giggles, then he is still evil. The whole killing people because his cheekbones are not painted right and to entertain his guests... yeah evil. Also note that all his actions have a selfish motive. He does eveything for himself. He only agreed to help the hero save the world because he was saving himself at the same time.

He does horrible things to benefit himself first and foremost. That's pretty much a textbook definition of evil. I'm thinking you're letting the sexy distract you from the morality. :lol:
 
Bluedrake said:
Well, if you define evil as doing terrible things for giggles, then he is still evil. The whole killing people because his cheekbones are not painted right and to entertain his guests... yeah evil. Also note that all his actions have a selfish motive. He does eveything for himself. He only agreed to help the hero save the world because he was saving himself at the same time.
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Bluedrake said:
He does horrible things to benefit himself first and foremost. That's pretty much a textbook definition of evil. I'm thinking you're letting the sexy distract you from the morality. :lol:
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The sexy is distracting :D But that's not what I'm saying.

I still say evil is too strong a word. He's a prick, a horrible man, and an all round twisted person but.. evil? Seems too strong for him still. He's just an incredibly selfish and self centred man. As for killing artists/sculptors? It's because he thinks a lot about how he looks, if they dare get one thing wrong, in his eyes, that's a paddlin' killing. The attempted killing of Page and the hero? They were trying to get one over on him, and he knew it. A twisted form of self defence.
 
Aruu said:
Yeah, those are pretty gruesome acts, but I can't still label him as evil. He's dancing on the line, that's for sure, but in the end he doesn't do it because it's wrong, he does it because it gets results. He wants eternal youth, he has a to kill a few kids for it. He wouldn't kill kids for kicks. Selling out the hero, that benefited him too. As for enslaving children, he pointed out they were cheap labour, and kept them off the streets.

In short, he doesn't do bad things for fun, he does it because it benefits him. If a good act were to work in his favour, I bet he'd go for it.
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What could possibly be more evil than all that?!
 
Who said we needed to kill him? The chance to do anything but take up the poop shoot would have been nice. He tried to kill you but you're unable to do anything even after becoming king. It makes no sense and is just plain lazy on Lionheads part.
 
*spoilers*

Reaver is a sociopathic parasite who has robs the best days of others' lives (including my Fable II character's) so he can stay forever young and preserve the precious looks that have some people swooning over him. Reaver is a egomaniacal despot who shoots workers for daring to question his tyranny and avarice, and forces children into factory labor. Reaver is a narcissistic, foppish fruitcake who shoots people (like Barnum)for testing his nonexistent patience. Reaver is a self-serving egotist who stole my rightful revenge against Lucien for killing my sister, my dog, my wife and my children. Reaver is a scurrilous robber baron, a blight on the face of Albion, a scabrous, dripping sack of venereal disease, and a petticoat-wearing, ass-powdering coward whose mere continued existence is a crime against justice. And now he has a swooping emo haircut!!!

I guess you could say I don't care for him. I just couldn't believe Lionhead would not allow me the choice to kill him. Despite what some think, his actions and nature make him the very definition of evil (morally reprehensible, causing harm), and considering my character was the epitome of good in both II and III, to let Reaver live and continue to kill, enslave, and vampirically steal others' life force is waaay out of character.

I agree with Vyan and Arseface: Lionhead is keeping him around because he's Stephen Fry and a necessary foil to good characters. And I'll admit, he is damn charismatic. Once I accepted the fact that Fable III is not the game where he was going to die I was actually able to enjoy his witticisms quite a bit.

But I promise you this: Somewhere, some century, he will gasp his last with my sword in his heart.
 
Aruu said:
Reaver's the guy you love to hate. He's an infuriatingly charismatic prick who you really want to see get his long deserved comeuppance, but at the same time he adds something vital to Fable 2 & 3; an anti-hero who is running on his own agenda, and no-one else's. Reaver does everything he does for no-one other than him, and that's why he works so well.

There's no darkness to make him make cruel choices like Logan. There's no tragic family death like Lucien. He's just a smug twat who sacrificed Oakvale to escape the only thing he feared, death itself.

I don't think Reaver is evil, in all honesty. That's far too strong a word for him. He's pretty damn far from good too, for that matter. He's just.. well, Reaver.

I think it would have been awesome to fight him, but I don't agree with killing him. He adds something far too strong to the Fable series to just off him like that.
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I completely disagree. First of all, I hate the guy not just because he's a schmuck but because he's always trying to find a way to undermine us or stab us in the back. Yes, he's anti-hero but our characters are also the anti-heroes (if we so choose) and why would we want a bunch of those running around? I agree, Reaver is a selfish douchebagel and he knows how to make things work for him.

However, saying Reaver isn't evil is naive He's killed numerous people for the pettiest reasons, he's destroyed a whole town just to give himself immortality which didn't stop ruining lives there (he has to make someone else give up their youth in exchange for his), he sold out our father/mother to Lucien in Fable II, he's forced children and adults alike to work in poor conditions which I'm sure has caused a great deal of deaths and he's responsible for the abhorrent living conditions of all those who reside in the Industrial section of Bowerstone.

He's an evil, selfish, conniving, pretentious, arrogant, prick. He's about as bad as they come.

The only thing he adds to the game is an obstacle, an obnoxious one at that. The Crawler, Jack of Blades and Lucien are all saints compared to this guy.
 
MaleficRaven said:
The only thing he adds to the game is an obstacle, an obnoxious one at that. The Crawler, Jack of Blades and Lucien are all saints compared to this guy.
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Thank you! Finally, someone who didn't apparently sleep through all his unspeakable crimes and obnoxious attempts to mess with the best - the Hero of Albion.
 
Sir Robin said:
Thank you! Finally, someone who didn't apparently sleep through all his unspeakable crimes and obnoxious attempts to mess with the best - the Hero of Albion.
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Of course. Don't get me wrong, I can be VERY evil when I want to but I wouldn't even do some of the things he's done. He has a complete and utter disregard for all life except his own. If he's not evil then I'm not a magic wielding nutjob.
 
MaleficRaven said:
If he's not evil then I'm not a magic wielding nutjob.
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Which you most certainly are.

MaleficRaven said:
He has a complete and utter disregard for all life except his own.
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Precisely. And there's nothing cool or impressive about that. Some of his exploits (like worming his way into power in every epoch of Albion) are impressive and would make me like him, if it weren't for the needless slaughter, enslavement, and my admittedly personal grudges against him.
 
Kessd said:
I would love to see Reaver age because he was unable to fulfill his arrangement with the shadow court for whatever reason.
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I think that'd be cool. You could somehow break his seal or whatever he uses to trap life force and watch him go all wrinkly, Dorian Gray style. Except it shouldn't be too quick - he needs to suffer. I think an epic boss battle with him where he has the upper hand until you break the seal and he gets progressively older and weaker would do the trick.
 
I say nay to killing him. I would much much much much much rather see him age slowly to his death. I'm hoping that in Fable IV we can make it so he can no longer sacrifice people and then we see him all old and powerless in Fable V. I would consider that the best revenge ever~
 
Xeno said:
I say nay to killing him. I would much much much much much rather see him age slowly to his death. I'm hoping that in Fable IV we can make it so he can no longer sacrifice people and then we see him all old and powerless in Fable V. I would consider that the best revenge ever~
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Is it too much to ask for both?
 
I guess not, but my way makes him suffer more and we get him in the last two games :D But if not, we better be able to brutally slaughter him!
 
Reaver's comments make me lol, but he's pretty much a major douche. I'm not sure i would kill him if given the option though...he's a great character who has a lot of personality, it would be a shame to lose that i suppose.
 
Xeno said:
I say nay to killing him. I would much much much much much rather see him age slowly to his death. I'm hoping that in Fable IV we can make it so he can no longer sacrifice people and then we see him all old and powerless in Fable V. I would consider that the best revenge ever~
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Saying "nay" to killing him then saying you want him to die a slow and painful death sort of... contradicts what you said.

Now then, I do enjoy Reaver on a small level but the fact of the matter is that he's too immoral and too corrupt to be allowed to live. I do have a theory though. In Fable II he was a pretty corrupt schmuck who tried to sell us out (which managed to backfire) but overall he was fairly harmless. Then in Fable III he controls a large chunk of Bowerstone and has his own company which handles just about everything from building schools and brothels to digging up lakes for precious minerals. That's a great deal of power that one man has and given his background, I'd say he's going to do more than just sit by idly while we muck up his plans (of course, evil characters actually helped him out but Lionhead always favors the good choices).

What I'm getting at is that I believe Lionhead is actually building Reaver up to be the ultimate evil villain. Or maybe just a really bad-ass villain for Fable IV but who knows? He has a tremendous amount of potential that I doubt Lionhead will wast...

Actually, nevermind. Lionhead always disappoints so forget I said anything.
 
I mean not kill him outright <.< I still want that bastard dead, just would prefer for him to suffer more :D
 
Bluedrake said:
Seriously? Killing artists because he is dissatisfied with their work, stealing the youths of countless people to maintain his, destroying Oakvale, selling out the hero to Lucien, having people slaughtered in his private arena for sport, enslaving children... What more does he need to do to qualify as evil?
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He rapes chickens. Don't forget that.

LIBERATE THE POULTRY!

Edit: Ninja'd. By a whole page of posts. XD (Apparently, I forgot to press the button to actually post it...)
 
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