[Poll]:: Pride and You

[Arld]

Knowledge and wisdom are two things apart. Wisdom is the ability to apply knowledge to subjects, whereas knowledge would be the ability to understand and elaborate facts and other understandings.

 

[ssjcb1186]

^...ninja'd?...

 

[HobbeBrain]

Wisdom is not Knowledge. I believe "ignorance" is the opposite of "knowledge" but correct me if I'm wrong.

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I would find it difficult to apply something you don't know. But I guess this can be connected to the voting scenario when people vote unintelligibly. Is this "apply what you don't know"?​

Knowledge and wisdom are two things apart. Wisdom is the ability to apply knowledge to subjects, whereas knowledge would be the ability to understand and elaborate facts and other understandings.

I never said wisdom was the same as knowledge...?

 

[Arseface]

Well, the point of what I said is that I can't read the future and know what they will actually achieve in the presidency. And I have no control over what any of the government does once they get there. I know I'm being cynical and pessimistic...but that's just me I guess.

No, you do have control over what the government does. That's why it's called a Democracy. To think you don't is to just allow the government to do what they want, and **** over the people who actually want to help, but can't because they are a minority.

I actually probably will vote...but that's if I like either of them. If I don't really care for either after doing research and making an informed decision then it doesn't matter which one becomes president. I guess it doesn't help that I'm Independent/half-Democratic half-Republican (though I relate more the Democrats than anything else).

Another thing that ****s me: There are more than two parties guys. Do some research, pick a good one, or an independant, and you actually contribute.

And I agree that I'm not helping anyone...but I find it no worse to not act than to act ignorantly...ya know?

So you justify it to yourself by saying "Well, I guess I'm not the worst out there, so I'll keep doing it"? Imagine if the legal system worked that way. "Well, he's only killed one person, so he's not as bad as this guy who killed his family, so we'll let him go."

It just doesn't make sense, dude.

More Cynicism: people want to help themselves and don't want to help others, for the most part. Some people actually prefer other people to help them rather than doing something themselves. If people really wanted to help themselves in the first place, they probably wouldn't be ignorant :/

That, my friend, is a social problem that we can easily fix. Change the culture, create abundance, get rid of the monetary system, people all of a sudden will become the most altruistic bastards you've ever seen.

I agree...the filter is unnecessary. It's not like we're all going to be delinquents because we're reading "profane" language...-_-

The original reason we had it was so that spambots weren't attracted to the forums by doing a keyword search for swearwords.

 

[ssjcb1186]

No, you do have control over what the government does. That's why it's called a Democracy. To think you don't is to just allow the government to do what they want, and **** over the people who actually want to help, but can't because they are a minority.

Well, it's too bad that all government is Corrupt. I shouldn't say "all" but I just don't have enough faith to try to be "politically correct."
And I don't really see much of the power I hold in this government...if I ever could hold any :/

That, my friend, is a social problem that we can easily fix. Change the culture, create abundance, get rid of the monetary system, people all of a sudden will become the most altruistic bastards you've ever seen.

"Altruistic Bastards" seems like an oxymoron to me...but, eh.
I just hope you were being sarcastic with that...which I believe you were, but I just can't tell right now :/

Another thing that ****s me: There are more than two parties guys. Do some research, pick a good one, or an independant, and you actually contribute.

Well, the "other parties" will never become popular enough to even be known. We can't wipe out ignorance of an entire nation...I wish we could.

The original reason we had it was so that spambots weren't attracted to the forums by doing a keyword search for swearwords.

Oh...people do that?...m -_-


I mean, I understand where you're coming from and all your points are valid and true, but it's just so unrealistic (ironic?) and socially impossible. I know people have the power to change the world, but they have to be have the power to change people's minds and shape their thinking. This, however, is virtually impossible and will probably never be done. They will be looked at as a Radical and discarded from society. People, as a whole, aren't very efficient...only as efficient as they want to be, and people become stuck in their ways.
I, for one, would like to keep out of other people's woes and focus on my friends and family (though I know that the government has an impact on all of that). I believe that people are generally good and try to do the good thing or as best as they want to. We all know what's best for everyone (probably) but going about it successfully is a whole other process that requires people's cooperation and unclouded minds. This is a rarity in America which is why we're in the state we're in right now.

I know it's not helpful to others, but I'd rather worry about me than the government that looks like it's about to fall apart anyway. England isn't really have the easiest time either :/. I like helping people, but political help is somewhere I'm not willing to go for I don't trust it.

I never said wisdom was the same as knowledge...?

Oh...

 

[Arseface]

Well, it's too bad that all government is Corrupt. I shouldn't say "all" but I just don't have enough faith to try to be "politically correct."
And I don't really see much of the power I hold in this government...if I ever could hold any :/

You do hold the power. Everyone holds the power. People are just mindlessly cynical and are just content to let the system **** over everyone. People who do that are idiots, and I'm sorry to put you in that category, but it's the most idiotic mindset I can think of.

"Altruistic Bastards" seems like an oxymoron to me...but, eh.
I just hope you were being sarcastic with that...which I believe you were, but I just can't tell right now :/

I genuinely believe that. It's happened countless times before in history, so why can't we change it now? Because we're made to feel powerless by the corporations and governments, and cynics who think they're depressing world view makes them special.

Well, the "other parties" will never become popular enough to even be known. We can't wipe out ignorance of an entire nation...I wish we could.

This is the cause of the problem. If you don't believe the world can change, then of course it's not going to change. You have to stop sitting around waiting for someone else to do the work you can't be ****ed doing.

I mean, I understand where you're coming from and all your points are valid and true, but it's just so unrealistic (ironic?) and socially impossible. I know people have the power to change the world, but they have to be have the power to change people's minds and shape their thinking. This, however, is virtually impossible and will probably never be done. They will be looked at as a Radical and discarded from society. People, as a whole, aren't very efficient...only as efficient as they want to be, and people become stuck in their ways.

Change the culture, and that problem get's fixed. Not hard if we actually work towards it, rather than just wait for someone to come along and change it for us.

I, for one, would like to keep out of other people's woes and focus on my friends and family (though I know that the government has an impact on all of that). I believe that people are generally good and try to do the good thing or as best as they want to. We all know what's best for everyone (probably) but going about it successfully is a whole other process that requires people's cooperation and unclouded minds. This is a rarity in America which is why we're in the state we're in right now.

And that justifies it? Just because everyone else is an ignorant ****er, does that make it alright for you to just go along with it? If you actually cared about other people, and not just yourself, then you would actually fight for what you believe in.

I know it's not helpful to others, but I'd rather worry about me than the government that looks like it's about to fall apart anyway. England isn't really have the easiest time either :/. I like helping people, but political help is somewhere I'm not willing to go for I don't trust it.

Then change it! Get involved and try to help the world, rather than just letting it die.

 

[ssjcb1186]

You do hold the power. Everyone holds the power. People are just mindlessly cynical and are just content to let the system **** over everyone. People who do that are idiots, and I'm sorry to put you in that category, but it's the most idiotic mindset I can think of.

I genuinely believe that. It's happened countless times before in history, so why can't we change it now? Because we're made to feel powerless by the corporations and governments, and cynics who think they're depressing world view makes them special.

You're right.

This is the cause of the problem. If you don't believe the world can change, then of course it's not going to change. You have to stop sitting around waiting for someone else to do the work you can't be ****ed doing.

Change the culture, and that problem get's fixed. Not hard if we actually work towards it, rather than just wait for someone to come along and change it for us.

Well, I'd like to see you change a whole culture's mindset and change everyone on a fundamental basis. I've grown to learn that this is not possible. You can influence others, but you can't make them believe something they don't...this, however, can come true over time, over many a lifetime. :/

And that justifies it? Just because everyone else is an ignorant ****er, does that make it alright for you to just go along with it? If you actually cared about other people, and not just yourself, then you would actually fight for what you believe in.

Then change it! Get involved and try to help the world, rather than just letting it die.

No, it doesn't justify it. And I honestly don't care much for other people. I care enough to respect them and treat them like human beings. I do not have the energy or determination to transform society. I'm too passive a person and believe people deserve to live the way they want to live. I'm not a visionary and have learned to accept to live in this sub-par world and try to make the best of it. Settling isn't valiant, but I've just come to terms with the way life is and how it's becoming.

I trust people enough to do the right thing, I'm not looking for power or recognition. I don't want to change people's lives. I'll change my life and get what I want and help those who need it, but trying to "better" everyone else's life will probably backfire.

I hope you're successful with your dreams

(This has been a good conversation and very eye-opening for me. Thank You)

 

[Arseface]

Well, I'd like to see you change a whole culture's mindset and change everyone on a fundamental basis. I've grown to learn that this is not possible. You can influence others, but you can't make them believe something they don't...this, however, can come true over time, over many a lifetime. :/

That's my point though. It shouldn't be up to me, everyone should want to change.

No, it doesn't justify it. And I honestly don't care much for other people. I care enough to respect them and treat them like human beings. I do not have the energy or determination to transform society. I'm too passive a person and believe people deserve to live the way they want to live. I'm not a visionary and have learned to accept to live in this sub-par world and try to make the best of it. Settling isn't valiant, but I've just come to terms with the way life is and how it's becoming.

I trust people enough to do the right thing, I'm not looking for power or recognition. I don't want to change people's lives. I'll change my life and get what I want and help those who need it, but trying to "better" everyone else's life will probably backfire.

It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

 

[ssjcb1186]

That's my point though. It shouldn't be up to me, everyone should want to change.

Personal change is a difficult thing to create. I, for one, and especially deterred by it.

It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

True Story.
But we tend to take the easy way than the best way. Easy meaning bad or unhelpful.

 

[Skotekal]

You do hold the power. Everyone holds the power. People are just mindlessly cynical and are just content to let the system **** over everyone. People who do that are idiots, and I'm sorry to put you in that category, but it's the most idiotic mindset I can think of.

So being carefree about politics is idiotic? That is a fairly stupid thing to say.

 

[Arseface]

So being carefree about politics is idiotic? That is a fairly stupid thing to say.

How? People who make uninformed votes are putting crappy politicians in power and allowing them to do what they want because the public doesn't care. If we actually showed them that they can't push us around, then they would actually govern for the good of the people.

 

[ssjcb1186]

I think "being carefree" means "not doing anything" meaning "they're not going to vote and have no part in the government." But your argument will be the same, just with different wording as I've already discussed it with you >)

 

[cheezMcNASTY]

Re: [Poll]:: Pride and You
Cynicism like that is just a compounding factor of the problem we're facing. We can change the world, we just have to do it.

i really don't understand where you're disagreeing with me. yeah,we can change the world. but if by we you mean me, you, and everyone inbetween, well... a lot of those people don't care or want to. many aren't as informed of the state of the world as you or me, or quite simply profit from it's current state. and even those who just need to be informed, how would you get them to listen? if it was so simple it would have been done. i'm all for optimism and a feeling that you can accomplish such a thing, but in this case it really doesn't come down to you in the bigger picture. you can do your part, but if the rest of the world isn't on the same page best of luck.

you're absolutely right, that everyone should be trying to inform themselves so they make the right political decisions... but (and you'll only hear me say this in the case of abstract debate) people believe that what they are currently doing is the right thing. be it voting for a scientologist president, not supporting stem-cell research, or just not voting because they realize something frowned upon, yet totally true: their vote is insignificant in the long run. democracy does dictate that you have a say over what the government does. but with all the people out there convinced that they are right, that global warming doesn't exist, that we (the US point of view) should go to war with some other country who doesn't give two flying ****s over which political party is dominant, that abortion should be made illegal, that gay marriage should be made illegal, or that any of the above should be illegal because they profit from it, you are bound to have a country that's just tripping over its self. you can't just tell people that they're wrong. people are hard headed idiots who get offended if they get told that they've got it all wrong. that's where democracy falls short. sure, i think i've got it right, i think that if i could vote for someone who would lead with my ideals the world could be a better place. but i am .000000000001% of the people who get a say in that. chances of the rest voting for my candidate? well, you'd think half, but people who not only vote for the other major parties candidate but also for a 3rd party candidate or just don't plain vote it's rather hard to get the right guy in office.

the system really is held back by idiots. idiots are the weakness of democracy. it's practically turned me into an anarchist.

 

[ssjcb1186]

Everything I would have said if Arseface wasn't so set in his thinking.

I pretty much agree with all of it.

Like I said: "You can't change others, you can only change yourself."

It's great that you want to make the world a better place and think you can do it. All the power to you if you ever decide to go out and actually do something Arse, but the fact is: some people won't listen. And why force things down people's throats? I find that unethical, which is why I stopped trying to argue with you and just agreed with what you said (though I still agree with your ideals, I just still think they are unobtainable).

And I'm not saying that you can't make a difference, but you're not about to change the government or its people; at least, not over night.

So...for the sake of the major detour of topic we just made...how about some of that pride again...mmm

 

[Arseface]

the system really is held back by idiots. idiots are the weakness of democracy. it's practically turned me into an anarchist.

That's exactly what I've been saying. I just don't become cynical about it (which is hard to do most of the time), because I know that if everyone loses hope, then there is really no chance of getting through it.

 

[cheezMcNASTY]

It's great that you want to make the world a better place and think you can do it. All the power to you if you ever decide to go out and actually do something Arse, but the fact is: some people won't listen. And why force things down people's throats? I find that unethical, which is why I stopped trying to argue with you and just agreed with what you said (though I still agree with your ideals, I just still think they are unobtainable).

no, that's exactly what a media is for. that's the goal of news networks, newpapers, blogs, and news radio. the problem is that the people you agree with aren't the only ones with the microphones, and aren't the most listened to by a long shot. in the most abstract and purest terms, i think people need a dose of truth rammed down their throats. it's a fundamental of a communist government that i agree with. the problem is politicians are twice as ass backwards as the nuts who follow them. a communist society is designed to be the fairest to the people in every way, the only fault is that it relies on a politician to decide how humanitarian it really is. this is why getting people to listen just isn't possible. even if such a power existed and was put to good use, the system could turn corrupt or it could fall into the wrong hands. the sad reality is that such a change needs to be done the hard way, and won't happen unless people wake up.

 

[ssjcb1186]

It's a fundamental of a communist government that i agree with. the problem is politicians are twice as ass backwards as the nuts who follow them. a communist society is designed to be the fairest to the people in every way.

This is so true and something I hold true with me always. It makes my skin crawl when people talk bad about Communism when they're really talking about Dictatorship. There is no Country today that practices true Communism. It's hypocritical to say that they're a Communist Dictatorship since they're pretty much the polar opposite. How can everyone have the same power but one person be above everyone else?...oxymorons...>)

 

[Arseface]

All are equal, but some are more equal than others.

 

[SelfAppointedGunslinger]

I have common sense (a little too much)

By this I, basically mean that whenever I defeat someone else's argument with logic it offends them. The situation then usually ends with Me either being threatened in some kind of way or with the other person telling Me to 'f*ck off' simply because I use common sense in My argument, seriously it's like they're in denial.

 

[ChristieScott]

If you get too proud, you get farted on by those smarter than you! so beware!