Mosque over Ground Zero
- Thread starter Sean
- Start date
Shadowtree
Winner of Lil'Miss Zerg 2010
Re: Mosque over Ground Zero
Yes it is. And I have no problem with allowing Islam. But its also not fair to build it there to rub dirt in the faces of victims' families/friends. Or to encourage futher attacks. After all just because there are a few extremists dosent mean they arent a threat. The whole idea of this argument is because they ARE a threat and proved so on 9/11. To the extremists, this mosque is a symbol of their growing power.DarkenedSoul;418299 said:
Re: Mosque over Ground Zero
this is the first i'm hearing of it.
religious implications aside. the building holds more significance to the city than a giant mosque would. there is no reason that they should need to have it at that specific location, nor push for it to be there unless it were to cause controversy among people who would take offense to it. it's not jerusalem, there is no religious significance to any part of new york city, they should be able to build it somewhere else if it's causing such a ****ing fuss. personally i don't care either way. it's not like just because there's a mosque that all of a sudden Al Qaeda is going to set up a base of operations there. it's just a place of worship.
if everyone's going to make such a big deal over it, then they can build it over some other 150 year old building. new york has more than enough of those. if people can start getting over what happened 9 years ago, then let them build.
EDIT: oh wow! it's not even a ****ing mosque. really now? i probably should have gone and done some backup research before applying, but who cares if they just want to build a community center. hell, let them build 8 of 'em!
this is the first i'm hearing of it.
religious implications aside. the building holds more significance to the city than a giant mosque would. there is no reason that they should need to have it at that specific location, nor push for it to be there unless it were to cause controversy among people who would take offense to it. it's not jerusalem, there is no religious significance to any part of new york city, they should be able to build it somewhere else if it's causing such a ****ing fuss. personally i don't care either way. it's not like just because there's a mosque that all of a sudden Al Qaeda is going to set up a base of operations there. it's just a place of worship.
if everyone's going to make such a big deal over it, then they can build it over some other 150 year old building. new york has more than enough of those. if people can start getting over what happened 9 years ago, then let them build.
EDIT: oh wow! it's not even a ****ing mosque. really now? i probably should have gone and done some backup research before applying, but who cares if they just want to build a community center. hell, let them build 8 of 'em!
Re: Mosque over Ground Zero
I think the majority know that the terrorism act was done by radicals, and that not all muslims are bad. But the fact the terrorism act was done in the name of Islam and has been done in the name of it in the past, present and most likely future, so whether or not the people building it are terrorists or not, it's still in worship of a religious name that has been used to kill innocents for hundreds of years - that goes for pretty much any religion.
As for the location, I don't even know if anybody knows the true location cause each site and each person I've heard tell the story is always something different. "Right on it. Right next to it. Two blocks away. Four blocks away." Changes all the time!
I think the majority know that the terrorism act was done by radicals, and that not all muslims are bad. But the fact the terrorism act was done in the name of Islam and has been done in the name of it in the past, present and most likely future, so whether or not the people building it are terrorists or not, it's still in worship of a religious name that has been used to kill innocents for hundreds of years - that goes for pretty much any religion.
As for the location, I don't even know if anybody knows the true location cause each site and each person I've heard tell the story is always something different. "Right on it. Right next to it. Two blocks away. Four blocks away." Changes all the time!
Re: Mosque over Ground Zero
That's the worse Faulty Analogy I've ever heard, (An argument that two things that are alike in some respects must be alike in other respects) as well as a Slippery Slope (Assuming that an action will lead to an unwanted outcome as the result of many or a few small steps that will inevitably follow).
They are a different group of Muslims. Those terrorists use Islam's name in vain, just like everyone else uses the Lord's name in vain every day. Just because a few people who believed in Islam and killed hundreds of thousands of people doesn't mean that every Muslim believes the same thing. You're right, people have killed people in the name of all different kinds of religions, and they still have churches and temples, etc. etc. but that doesn't give you or anyone else the right to provoke their right to practice religion where they want. Regardless of size and cost, it's their ethical and moral right to do so. You proved absolutely nothing by your argument, as is everyone else who opposes this notion.
It's one thing to say that you don't like it because it's religion, it's quite another to say it's because of who they believe in. And don't say that I'm using fallacies too because you thinking they can't do something due to their religion is, indeed, discrimination.
It's too bad to see how discriminatory some people are on this site.
Sean;418324 said:
That's the worse Faulty Analogy I've ever heard, (An argument that two things that are alike in some respects must be alike in other respects) as well as a Slippery Slope (Assuming that an action will lead to an unwanted outcome as the result of many or a few small steps that will inevitably follow).
They are a different group of Muslims. Those terrorists use Islam's name in vain, just like everyone else uses the Lord's name in vain every day. Just because a few people who believed in Islam and killed hundreds of thousands of people doesn't mean that every Muslim believes the same thing. You're right, people have killed people in the name of all different kinds of religions, and they still have churches and temples, etc. etc. but that doesn't give you or anyone else the right to provoke their right to practice religion where they want. Regardless of size and cost, it's their ethical and moral right to do so. You proved absolutely nothing by your argument, as is everyone else who opposes this notion.
It's one thing to say that you don't like it because it's religion, it's quite another to say it's because of who they believe in. And don't say that I'm using fallacies too because you thinking they can't do something due to their religion is, indeed, discrimination.
It's too bad to see how discriminatory some people are on this site.
Re: Mosque over Ground Zero
A: Not to say Sean is the smartest person here, but I am quite sure he doesn't need the definition posted next to those words.
B: very few if any people here are discriminatory, in fact, I only recently had a disposition for Hispanics, but then I came to my senses and realized that it was the Mexican gang that cut my friend open, not the whole race. Same deal with Muslims in this conversation, but there is a difference.
That said, I still stand that the Mosque is fine.
ssjcb1186;418357 said:
A: Not to say Sean is the smartest person here, but I am quite sure he doesn't need the definition posted next to those words.
B: very few if any people here are discriminatory, in fact, I only recently had a disposition for Hispanics, but then I came to my senses and realized that it was the Mexican gang that cut my friend open, not the whole race. Same deal with Muslims in this conversation, but there is a difference.
That said, I still stand that the Mosque is fine.
Re: Mosque over Ground Zero
Hey, I don't want to get tangled up in this incredibly fun argument myself, so I'll let somebody else do it for me.
Since I just skimmed through rather than reading the whole thing and getting ****ed off and really getting into the argument with everyone, I will address one thing I glimpsed. Sean, I believe, said that the majority of New Yawkers disapprove of building this thing. Here's some statistics. A ton of Americans, depressingly, disapprove, at 68%. 53% of New Yorkers disapprove. Only 31% of people who live in Manhattan-- y'know, right where the towers were, and where they're putting their snazzy new community center-- disapprove. Which is still a lot, but marginally increases my faith in humanity.
Hey, I don't want to get tangled up in this incredibly fun argument myself, so I'll let somebody else do it for me.
Since I just skimmed through rather than reading the whole thing and getting ****ed off and really getting into the argument with everyone, I will address one thing I glimpsed. Sean, I believe, said that the majority of New Yawkers disapprove of building this thing. Here's some statistics. A ton of Americans, depressingly, disapprove, at 68%. 53% of New Yorkers disapprove. Only 31% of people who live in Manhattan-- y'know, right where the towers were, and where they're putting their snazzy new community center-- disapprove. Which is still a lot, but marginally increases my faith in humanity.
Re: Mosque over Ground Zero
1. Its not a Mosque. Its a cultural center, it will have a Mosque in it however. A pool too.
2. Its not at Ground Zero, its a few blocks away. There is a strip club much closer to Ground Zero.
3. Its replacing a Burlington Coat Factory.
4. Islam had nothing to do with 9/11. Although the perpetrators of it may claim to be Muslim, Islam's teachings thoroughly condemn what they did.
5. Freedom of religion.
I say build it.
1. Its not a Mosque. Its a cultural center, it will have a Mosque in it however. A pool too.
2. Its not at Ground Zero, its a few blocks away. There is a strip club much closer to Ground Zero.
3. Its replacing a Burlington Coat Factory.
4. Islam had nothing to do with 9/11. Although the perpetrators of it may claim to be Muslim, Islam's teachings thoroughly condemn what they did.
5. Freedom of religion.
I say build it.
Skotekal
Sheeple President
Re: Mosque over Ground Zero
I think you win a free internet.
And of course I don't realize another 2 freaking pages, my bad.
So it is a few blocks away? Then who gives a ****?
Necromancer11;418071 said:
I think you win a free internet.
And of course I don't realize another 2 freaking pages, my bad.
So it is a few blocks away? Then who gives a ****?
Re: Mosque over Ground Zero
Considering it's illegal for the city to stop it from happening, I think it should go ahead.
That being said, would it be any different if was a Synagogue? Or a Stupa? Of course it would.
Of course, if the Mosque does end up being built, then the fundies will claim it as a victory.
So in summary: **** America and it's angry rednecks, and **** the Middle East and their angry fundies.
Considering it's illegal for the city to stop it from happening, I think it should go ahead.
That being said, would it be any different if was a Synagogue? Or a Stupa? Of course it would.
Of course, if the Mosque does end up being built, then the fundies will claim it as a victory.
So in summary: **** America and it's angry rednecks, and **** the Middle East and their angry fundies.
Shadowtree
Winner of Lil'Miss Zerg 2010
Re: Mosque over Ground Zero
Look, if you ask me, I dont think they should build ANYTHING religious there.
Arseface;419642 said:
Look, if you ask me, I dont think they should build ANYTHING religious there.
Re: Mosque over Ground Zero
Duh.
Um, what? The whole stupid BS political attention-grab is based on the fact that the place is Muslim and Muslims carried out the attack. I could see people screaming over a stupa, though. Definitely over a gurdwara. They aren't picky. AAAAH! Brownish skin and a turban!!!! EVIL MUSLIM!!!
What? No, that would be a loss from their prospective.
In response: **** Australia and their angry rednecks. I realize that there's probably a better term, but I've read enough miscellaneous things on the internet about Aussie redneckism to know that the term applies.
Where, Manhattan?
I didn't want to argue this, but in the course of finding info, I came across a... very smart person talking about Japan and Hindu temples and Pearl Harbor in a completely balls-out brilliant kind of way. In response, I wanted to point out that there is a Japanese Cultural Center (like this is a Muslim cultural center) in Hololulu, less than eight miles from Hickam Field; as well as several Buddhist and Shinto places of worship in the area. Roughly 13% of that state is Japanese-American.
Additionally, there was somebody using the same analogy from the other side, that the Japanese wouldn't let a Christian church be built near their ground zero. They rebuilt the destroyed Urakami/St Mary's Cathedral in 1959.
Arseface;419642 said:
Duh.
Um, what? The whole stupid BS political attention-grab is based on the fact that the place is Muslim and Muslims carried out the attack. I could see people screaming over a stupa, though. Definitely over a gurdwara. They aren't picky. AAAAH! Brownish skin and a turban!!!! EVIL MUSLIM!!!
What? No, that would be a loss from their prospective.
In response: **** Australia and their angry rednecks. I realize that there's probably a better term, but I've read enough miscellaneous things on the internet about Aussie redneckism to know that the term applies.
Shadowtree;419646 said:
Where, Manhattan?
I didn't want to argue this, but in the course of finding info, I came across a... very smart person talking about Japan and Hindu temples and Pearl Harbor in a completely balls-out brilliant kind of way. In response, I wanted to point out that there is a Japanese Cultural Center (like this is a Muslim cultural center) in Hololulu, less than eight miles from Hickam Field; as well as several Buddhist and Shinto places of worship in the area. Roughly 13% of that state is Japanese-American.
Additionally, there was somebody using the same analogy from the other side, that the Japanese wouldn't let a Christian church be built near their ground zero. They rebuilt the destroyed Urakami/St Mary's Cathedral in 1959.
Re: Mosque over Ground Zero
I guess, but that just shows the level of ignorance at play.
Historically, when Muslim armies conquered a new place, they would build mosques as a symbol of their victory.
We call them bogans.
Walker;419654 said:
I guess, but that just shows the level of ignorance at play.
Walker;419654 said:
Historically, when Muslim armies conquered a new place, they would build mosques as a symbol of their victory.
Walker;419654 said:
We call them bogans.
Re: Mosque over Ground Zero
what you mean i dont remeber posting unless my friend been on my acc
Arseface;419720 said:
what you mean i dont remeber posting unless my friend been on my acc